Raiding Enchanters, again

You guys are all assuming an immense amount of raid interaction and work to contain a charm pet. What manner of enchantery requires a seventeen-man support fleet for that?

If bards want to rock an endsong hotkey to do it, sure, but it's not needed. If your enchanters don't know how to recharm when shit's hitting the fan, it's probably because they simply have no experience doing so. If they do have experience and are still not really up for it without help from healers and bards and all that then they'd probably be happier with one of the many lower-level pets available. If they still can't contain the more modest level 54 pets then they should probably just stick with their safety-scissors animation.
 
If a raid moves at a consistent pace, you should be using your mana. Tash, slow, vex, GoG (target 1), nuke, GoG (target 2), nuke, vex, GoG (target 1), nuke, GoG (target 2), nuke, vex... get the pattern? If a raid moves consistently, you'll find yourself having to cut back on nuking some to maintain a workin level of mana. In short, if your not using your mana it's for one of two reasons, 1) the raid is moving slow or 2) you should be doing more.

That said, I do feel that the high end enchanter needs a bit more to contribute to a raid during fights. Many times I felt like I was along to cast JB, MR and Haste, curse the nameds and nothing more. Face it, we are less than meh for dps (even with GoG), we can't take a hit and don't heal... Other classes do fair enough or better at hasting, slowing, MR, and mezzing. If a raid didn't need JB/KEI, would a chanter even get a spot in the raid? Doubtful.

Ryst
 
Really we arent assuming that much, most mobs on any raids Id be attending, would rip apart a cloth caster pretty fast. And during any boss fights that are on your tier it should be that way. Thinking of having a healer watch the chanter during a boss fight that your pet will for sure break at least once during the fight, is a little bad that you assume it wont be a big problem to the raid as far as killing off your dps classes before it can be controlled if it breaks.
 
Chron, he said these mobs would spawn from traps and be level appropriate over a range.

So your options are:

dont charm, use dinky pet animation

Charm with boltrans for very safe meager dps

Charm with shiritris for slightly better dps

Charm with Command for optimal dps

Obviously you would only do this on a raid if you knew how to deal with a charm pet. This pretty much means you can't do it *optimally* botting. This is perfect though, as single clients should always have some benefit. Anyway, back onto what you said, if you know how to charm, you know how to recharm, even during a break. So unless you were fighting farg with a charm pet ( :psyduck: ) then you shouldn't have an issue even during a named fight.


My foreseeable issues right now? Spell slots. To do this you have to lose out on a ton of spell slots in order to keep up charming necessities: color swirl, mez, charm. How would that be dealt with?
 
apparently my point was completely negated there, in that I didnt have a problem with the mobs coming about. Its that charm is too unpredictable as is to use a charmed pet on a named mob that is at your guilds tier. If the charm breaks mid-fight, you're pretty much screwed unless you're lucky enough to switch targets back to it and get the mob charmed again before you die. And if it breaks 3-4 times, you're definately going to need someone watching your health. I dont know about your raids, but when we raid, it tends to be progressional content, and requires all of our healing power to deal with the boss mob's main damage output, not dealing with added liability.
 
It more of a toy of high end enchanters. If you can't deal with a charm mob alone, you probably should not yet. I do find an unhasted mob to be pretty tame if I catch it early enough. Relic rune will negate like 4 hits or maybe 2 rounds on a 58 if they hit really hard. Level 54 or less is fairly trivial with runecloak as they should not get through it unhasted. Then it needs to go through like 5-6k hp till I am in trouble. Its easy enough to deal with if I keep relic mez and pay attention. Its viability is more in jeopardy if hasted or I'm taking constant damage, but it just a matter of weighing the benefits and costs. Same goes for mana being drained as this does give us a reason to have a higher mana total, if only to keep as a reserve. Giantkin on a pet is a waste but it is a safer option. Also could use werewolf if it is not too inefficient. Giant werewolf pet pwease!

Color swirl could be dropped for relic mez only. I can see the potential of slightly faster cast but relic mez is not so much slower. Or just use archaic and get mostly the same effect as color swirl. But I do wonder how that thurg cape works. Mez alone would work fine if it gets stripped as well. I don't have it so I'm guessing it is used to strip buffs only.
 
Idk man, I have a completely different idea for an enchanter now that a certain weapon has been introduced to the game with a 6/4 ratio.. I think enchanter melee caps should be lifted to 250/255 and turn us into a melee/caster class, like some sort of new hybrid, and turn Giantkin into a PBAE buff landing group only.. cuz single target gog is too much time away from meleeing down the mob. And don't tweak any other spells just leave it as is. Probably the most simple idea.
 
I think ti's nice to see this come alive again there are several things here that were great idea and quite a few were kinda agreed on, how many of these were done / put in?

My personal thought is chanters are ONLY useful by using other toons still. IE the haste , GoG, Shared mind.
I understand all of these are a great help, But they still have nothing purely there own they have no special things to do other than charm, that is still VERY limited outside of groups, 6 man content.

They have a few dots and stuff but they have nothing they can use for themselves.

As for the melee cap why not? if a chanter what to be able to GoG them-self's and have the hits LAND with a decent skill let them. Obv this would be more of a grouping / soloing thing.
 
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Well.. yes if we were solo enchanter in the raid, but exo rolls with 2 chanters now. So work load is split up, ++ for shared mind imo. Altho, it leaves us just procrastinating on who's gonna gog. Hence the new pbae gog, and stick one in melee.. Oh, and maybe we can take Gather Mana to the next level and make it targetable. I'm sure EVERYONE would love that.
 
Cyzaine said:
So the whole unnerf of charm does nothing for ya eh?
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What was unnerfed about it? I still see them limited on charms and lots of zone just don't allow it. Only place I have ever seen charm used all the time for awesome Dps is FR.

Little more info on this would be cool.
 
Sagiscorpius said:
Actually it's nerfed.. pot4 sticks again, and can't stun.. and mezzing it.. just takes waaaay to long to get the mob back in the fight.
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Agree the ONE time we use this on a raid (that I can think of off the top of my head)
Charm (Enhanced Control) half the time of it is wasted before mez brakes.

Maybe once charm lands make it brake mez?
I guess they could nuke it themselves but on that fight I don't see where they are going to have time cuz they have to tash the adds proto
 
Pot4 never stopped sticking. When charm fades, however, you get Charm Daze and a MR buff wipe (and have for months now). If you think its bugged, set up a date with me in crashville.

And like the news post said,

*Removed Haste penalties from Charmed pets. We hope to make a habit of making overpowered charm mobs immune rather than nerfing charm altogether in the future.

Which is a terribly massive buff.

Frankly, that you can drop and recast charm early is something I think we should remove. Having charm break mez is very wtf to me.
 
Cyzaine said:
Frankly, that you can drop and recast charm early is something I think we should remove. Having charm break mez is very wtf to me.
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Wait, what? Removing pet go away, and recharming kinda takes away the CC aspect of charming.. but w/e.. this whole charm thing is kinda messed up anyway.. can't even keep a goblin in emberflow charmed for more than 18 mins, once that gangboss spawns, you get trained.. so no dps on big bosses. Rather be a melee dps and use my animation.

If you can pm me in game.. would like to talk to you real quick. -Tizanish
 
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I am very happy with enchanter usage on the all.They are insanely powerful with the most recent changes (of which there are *many*)when they have people or NPCs to control and looking at the logs have had their usage increase massively since we started implementing changes.

More tweaks to make them more fun are incoming with Ikisith but I think its pretty disingenuous to call them not useful or not well used on raids.
 
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