Raid DPS?

Even if people could only see their own numbers they would still compare.

The problem isn't comparison, but that 98% of those who use parsers don't understand what the numbers mean. For example, a bst may add @50-100 dps
to my rotation. A mage's elemental ward may save several group heals, saving mana and allowing greater focus on the tank. The former parses to me though I did jack to earn it, and the latter doesn't parse at all.

DPS does win fights, but people playing their classes well wins more. The two are not mutually exclusive, but neither are they perfectly aligned.

Heresy, I know.
 
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I agree with Dimmi - Pick a rogue, they have some utillity like picking Tmaps and sneaking a scout for targets. Mostly they are just great dps the never ends until they die. They have special Charms that costs less then othere charms and are fantastic to boot. They have special rogue only skills like poison and they can get there alignment realy easy (if you want chaotic). All in all A great pick.

Then there is Wizard. Nwaij has a point about wizards being great burst dps. And if you like high numbers then they are a good pick. 20000+ ultimate blasts with good gear, tomes and buffs, along with maybe your archaic spell, isent that uncommon, Howerver even with the 3 last charm you will not see enough to offset the extream mana cost of your spells. Lots of targets will be immune to some of your dmg like your achaic cold based nuke. Even mobs that are not immune will start to resist the hell out of you in later tiers - Your 2 main nukes dont have anything for neg resist mod on them. You do have Lurs and they are great, they do lsee dps and costs alot more mana. But atleast they let you do something. For utillity you get ports - A major part of your class, playing Taxi.

Necros - They are the sheet, they bleed utillity. FD, Res, Mez, crap-Heal. They are the only one of the 4 casters that will ever, EVER, do well in an on tier 6 man zone. They have end all dps if they use the festering curse AA. Even with out this they do not suffer from the wizards problem with resists as there dots often have high neg resist mods on them. For some reason the necro archaic has 10times (neg200) the resist check of the wizard and Mage archaics, bringing it up to par with lurs in terms of resist. This will almost always land. Necros are also a great pick for you - BUT not as good as rogues as there dps is "hidden" most of the time.

Rangers? - Once you go track it is hard to go back. Super high utillity, great fun. Has amazing dps on range using high dmg arrows and ok dps close to the monks when standing afk useing autoatk. Not as much dps as the othere 3, but as much utillity as the necro. They have the added bonus that if your tier 7+ and have a healer you can farm tons of cash and exp much better then the 3 othere.

DPS rank:
Necro
Rogue
Ranger
Wizard

Groupiness:
Necro
Ranger
Rogue
Wizard

Utility:
Necro
Ranger
Rogue
Wizard

just my 2cp anyway

ps. fook i hope im wrong, im all depressed now =(
 
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Rangers[...] have the added bonus that if your tier 7+ and have a healer you can farm tons of cash and exp much better then the 3 othere.
Explains why there are several wizards with 1.2mil charm and not a single ranger. :psyduck:

DPS rank:
Necro
Rogue
Ranger
Wizard
You're kidding, right? I outparse a ranger any day of the week, on about anything I ever parsed. And I outparse rogues quite often as well, ask dimmi if you don't take my word for it. Not commenting on necros cause dots werent parsable for a long time and I lack a reasonable statistical base.
 
You're kidding, right? I outparse a ranger any day of the week, on about anything I ever parsed. And I outparse rogues quite often as well, ask dimmi if you don't take my word for it. Not commenting on necros cause dots werent parsable for a long time and I lack a reasonable statistical base.


Rangers?...Not as much dps as the othere 3, but as much utillity as the necro...

Umm ya. And


...Nwaij has a point about wizards being great burst dps...

But for sustained dps im sticking to the necro/rogue/ranger being nr 1/2/3 - For 2 min burst dps, yes Wizards win. For 10min Ember boss, lol not even close.

Explains why there are several wizards with 1.2mil charm and not a single ranger.

Most of that - Made there charm pre-nerf? and Wizards are crazy powergames but rangers are slackers? =). But alright, im gonna turn it a little. Can a wizard make better solo/due cash then a ranger/healer combo?
 
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Umm ya. And




But for sustained dps im sticking to the necro/rogue/ranger being nr 1/2/3 - For 2 min burst dps, yes Wizards win. For 10min Ember boss, lol not even close.



Most of that - Made there charm pre-nerf? and Wizards are crazy powergames but rangers are slackers? =). But alright, im gonna turn it a little. Can a wizard make better solo/due cash then a ranger/healer combo?

Ranger dps is similar to monks, and less than both wizards and mages on most fights.

Generally Rogues/wizards/necros will be near each other until the fights last 15+ minutes (there's like 3 fights in the game nwaij runs totally oom on, as far as I know), followed by mages/monks/rangers then everyone else
 
Wizards absolutely destroy WPL treant spawn...Ranger druid is pretty good if the druid has Nightfire but really Wizard is just pwn
 
Explains why there are several wizards with 1.2mil charm and not a single ranger. :psyduck:

You're kidding, right? I outparse a ranger any day of the week, on about anything I ever parsed. And I outparse rogues quite often as well, ask dimmi if you don't take my word for it. Not commenting on necros cause dots werent parsable for a long time and I lack a reasonable statistical base.

1) Because You won't let me in TU

2) Because most rangers suck hard and/or stop playing too fast.
 
I agree that rangers and monks are around the same dps... i was just commenting on the posts above.
Also remember that You guys (TU) dont play the same game the rest of us play... Nwaji has like 600mana more then the highest mana none TU guy. For most of the server population tier 10 is kind of compleast endgame. Some things that apply to TU dont apply to anyone else. like increment 8 and above 6% elemental focus. Everyone else kind of get increment 7 at about tier 7 and from then on casters see little in terms of raid items that upgrader there dmg - They get more mana and keep scaling that way. But they stop getting more in terms of dps (from raids).

Im just speaking from my my own experience =). Im sure everything quite different for TU.

BTW. im in no way giveing you any type of shit Nwaji, or anyone else from TU - You guys are just compleatly unattached to the rest of the game.

Hence all the 2cp thing. =)
 
We all came from somewhere...except that dirty tier jumper Bango...Srsly tho, that's like saying a tier 4 guild doesn't understand the plight of the traek alt or something =(

As far as raid DPS goes, Nwaij is wrong, he outparses me like once in 10 fights depending on the fight, dirty dirty Nwaij! From what I've seen out of our more recent parses, on an average fight you can expect the line-up to look something like rog, wiz/temellin, monks/rangers, bards, Sigmund, tanks, other pets etc. Sadly I don't have many parses including mages and beastlords just yet. All of these parses that we do have have stayed pretty consistant as far as DPS order goes, before and after focus effect VIII and 7% elemental focuses.

I wouldn't discount everything that's said by someone because of their guild tag, a lot of the folks in TU have been playing this game for a long long time and have raided just about everything there is to raid, from First Ruins to REDACTED.

Sidenote b/c farming was brought up: The most effective plat farming duo I've ever ever ever witnessed was an enchanter boxing a wizard. Spooky ain't it?
 
I wouldn't discount everything that's said by someone because of their guild tag, a lot of the folks in TU have been playing this game for a long long time and have raided just about everything there is to raid, from First Ruins to REDACTED.

Hehe, im trying not to. Problem is that the argument "in TU we..." or " At Nwaji's mana level..." is really common. So ya, it is what, it is.

Sidenote b/c farming was brought up: The most effective plat farming duo I've ever ever ever witnessed was an enchanter boxing a wizard. Spooky ain't it?

that is spooky... im thinking prenerf somewhere =)
 
It's not too hard to believe with the amount a charmed mob and a good wiz can do together honestly. I would still throw a cleric in there just because this trio would p00n.
 
It's not too hard to believe with the amount a charmed mob and a good wiz can do together honestly. I would still throw a cleric in there just because this trio would p00n.

0 charming involved. and the zone hasn't been nerfed. Mez -> archaic -> mez lands as the archaic does. Rinse repeat.
 
0 charming involved. and the zone hasn't been nerfed. Mez -> archaic -> mez lands as the archaic does. Rinse repeat.

Except you can't time it perfectly to not take damage when mobs summon, and trying will just inevitably have you casting a split second too early and taking multiple rounds of damage. Every other round the mob will summon you and you'll take a round of damage if you're good, more if you're bad. Knowing how much damage is left on a rune is the most skill involved really, otherwise you'll either waste mana reruning too early or letting it break prematurely and having to heal (bust out the parc rings on both chars and load up the wiz pet). Don't keep the wiz pet up on any fight that matters. It will break mez and you will die or take damage, which increases downtime considerably. I don't see a nerf ever coming for a few reasons: its not easy, and its no more powerful than any other duo out there. It just drops mobs faster. You can't xp on a duo like that. It's mana intensive, and you will med a lot if you don't have gear, and you'll med a lot even with gear. The only thing I haven't gotten to play around with is the archaic mez, and its the only thing that really makes me wonder how powerful the duo can be. Why I'm the only enchanter who bothered to learn how to farm effectively on an enc is beyond me.

Thade, you've got no right to comment on what I do. You've never once even seen me work, you just continually tell me I can't do things, at which point I then immediately, without fail, go do them.

But yea, I don't like to brag, but dimmi put it out there so yea, as the glass cannon duo goes.. I'm the motherfucking abram. Also, strat leaks wtf.
 
I wouldn't discount everything that's said by someone because of their guild tag...

Though, you should consider taking what those members say with a grain of salt.

Necros - ... they bleed utillity. FD, Res, Mez, (self)-Heal.

Necros, also, have a 50% slow to undead, a group mana recourse, a poison/disease debuff Shaman seem to like in groups, and a poison resist/eb/lev buff.

They are the only one of the 4 casters that will ever, EVER, do well in an on tier 6 man zone.

Because of thier toolset, necros are always useful when a group's dps is low. Once that group's dps increases, necros are less necessary.

They have end all dps if they use the festering curse AA.

FC is only worth casting if the boss has high hp, doesn't pop in and out like a jack-in-the-box, or self-dispell. If these conditions are meet, it is significant dps. I do more dps on a low health boss without it.

Even with out this they do not suffer from the wizards problem with resists as there dots often have high neg resist mods on them. For some reason the necro archaic has 10times (neg200) the resist check of the wizard and Mage archaics, bringing it up to par with lurs in terms of resist. This will almost always land.

1. Claws of the chill lands like crap in most of pofrost, and parts of thaz and pofire. The fire spells land like crap in fire zones. The poison and disease dots are a bitch to land everywhere. This is why its called a dot rotation.

2. Many necro dots have high negative resists because there is a significant difference between class mechanics.
a. Being built around crit dice rolls, a wizard has the ability to do in one shot the damage a necro can do in 6 ticks to 12 ticks. Mage's get three shots at it, but they could use a class review.
b. Necro time to max damage can be as long as 6 to 7 ticks, depending on rotation.
c. Necros have a binary resist mechanic. No partials
d. Necro dps is extremely stable and consistent within the constraints of resist and rotation.
e. Outside of soloing and raid bosses, necro actual mana efficiency is generally terrible.

... as their dps is "hidden" most of the time.

Not any more. Though it is unnecessary. Given a rotation's base damage and the caster's crit %, a RL should be able to work out a necro's dps prior to a fight.
 
Except you can't time it perfectly to not take damage when mobs summon, and trying will just inevitably have you casting a split second too early and taking multiple rounds of damage. Every other round the mob will summon you and you'll take a round of damage if you're good, more if you're bad. Knowing how much damage is left on a rune is the most skill involved really, otherwise you'll either waste mana reruning too early or letting it break prematurely and having to heal (bust out the parc rings on both chars and load up the wiz pet). Don't keep the wiz pet up on any fight that matters. It will break mez and you will die or take damage, which increases downtime considerably. I don't see a nerf ever coming for a few reasons: its not easy, and its no more powerful than any other duo out there. It just drops mobs faster. You can't xp on a duo like that. It's mana intensive, and you will med a lot if you don't have gear, and you'll med a lot even with gear. The only thing I haven't gotten to play around with is the archaic mez, and its the only thing that really makes me wonder how powerful the duo can be. Why I'm the only enchanter who bothered to learn how to farm effectively on an enc is beyond me.

Thade, you've got no right to comment on what I do. You've never once even seen me work, you just continually tell me I can't do things, at which point I then immediately, without fail, go do them.

But yea, I don't like to brag, but dimmi put it out there so yea, as the glass cannon duo goes.. I'm the motherfucking abram. Also, strat leaks wtf.

This has always been a fairly effective tactic if you can time it right. Bards work also, but it's obviously slightly different.
 
This has always been a fairly effective tactic if you can time it right. Bards work also, but it's obviously slightly different.

I have done this a ton solo as a bard, suck it enchanters
 
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