Raid Accessibility & Content Relevance

I think the best middle of the road would be a reset and just give people their charms back. I like the idea of a reset but who knows if anybody would really commit or if new people would really show up.
 
donfolstar3 said:
@Nebi
That is a wonderful rant wherein you fluctuate between telling me why I am dumb and providing perfect arguments for the kind of changes I suggested. Lay off the pipe.

@Ryst
Your argument against a server reset is eerily similar to the reasons I hear from people who don't want to play on this server. If established players could channel those feelings of "shit I don't want to do again" into "shit that needs to be fixed" the server would be much more appealing to new players.
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You really missed the key word in there so I'll tell you what it was ... "again." Between my wife and I we've taken more than a couple of classes through faction grinding, quest grinding, exp grinding, gearing and nearly all trade skills. If it were 10 years ago and I was experiencing this game anew and didn't have the more complex life I have now, count me in, but now that I have done all of that and really don't have the time to do all that again, I want to see the things I have not seen yet (yeah, after 10 years playing there is high end content I have not even seen). I have little to no desire to repeat all the things that I have already done a multitude of times.
 
@donfolstar3 - I think you just want people to invest time into things that nobody will use. I'm not saying these ideas are terrible forever. I'm just saying these ideas are terrible now because shards of dalaya does not have enough of a low end player base to warrant these changes.
 
Server reset is a terrible idea, and I'd never ever touch this game again.

If the community is so on board with it, just start new characters, don't twink them to all hell and don't scum them into tier 13 raids the same day they hit level 65. If people are so on board with playing new characters, just go make one.

If you think new people to the server are going to come just because the server was reset, you're probably wrong. New people to the server won't realize how top heavy it is if they're coming in blind anyhow, so a reset won't have all of the appeal-points you think it will.

New players don't play this game because all of the old players refuse to play with them due to them not doing 800 dps.

Except Nebi, he plays with scummy people.

Edit: The only thing I'd be on board with (and I don't even know if its possible) is a temporary lockout from all existing characters, sort of emulating a server reset. For 6 months, a year, whatever. As long as all my progress isn't deleted. I might even come back for that event.
 
Rikunda said:
Anyone thinking the community would survive a server wipe is either in denial or an idiot. Those with the most to lose are the ones most likely to not return. You lose your character as a high end raider, ok that is a disaster but mendable via your guildmates help. Everyone loses their characters and suddenly everyone has to do everything over again. Would you willingly subject yourself to it again knowing you can't get assistance from a higher character?
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"has to do everything over again..." That is your problem right there. This game is about enjoyment in playing. Without an increase in population, that enjoyment will be gone. The joy is as they say, in the journey.

I've been on here for a decade. Have a t11 cleric, t9 paladim t8 monk t6 rogue t4 necro and about 30 alts between 1-55. Two eternals, a juggo, a nemesis, and other charms that don't matter. The first two characters got to low tier raiding when < Blight of Karma > and then < Fusion > were doing treasure maps to gear the guild (18 man raid VD maps were hard stuff back then)

Done the MQ more times than I can count, COI more times than I can ount etc. etc etc.

All of this that I have, is something I gained while playing with people I enjoyed playing video games with. This is something I would do again. Different classes, different alignment quests, different deity quests etc would probably be a thing for me.

But please, just call people idiots while you tremor in fear instead of actually thinking this through.
 
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Haenir said:
Server reset isn't a solution to the problem of top heaviness/raid accesibility. At best it prolongs the issue by kicking it down to the next time population becomes top heavy.
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It absolutely is a solution. It may be a temporary (10 year?) solution, but I don't see the problem with that.
 
Ludovician said:
Server reset is a terrible idea, and I'd never ever touch this game again.

If the community is so on board with it, just start new characters, don't twink them to all hell and don't scum them into tier 13 raids the same day they hit level 65. If people are so on board with playing new characters, just go make one.

If you think new people to the server are going to come just because the server was reset, you're probably wrong. New people to the server won't realize how top heavy it is if they're coming in blind anyhow, so a reset won't have all of the appeal-points you think it will.

New players don't play this game because all of the old players refuse to play with them due to them not doing 800 dps.

Except Nebi, he plays with scummy people.

Edit: The only thing I'd be on board with (and I don't even know if its possible) is a temporary lockout from all existing characters, sort of emulating a server reset. For 6 months, a year, whatever. As long as all my progress isn't deleted. I might even come back for that event.
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I used to go out of my way to help new people constantly. They all grow clingy and then shortly after i stop letting them suckle they grow bored and quit anyway. The majority of the people I tried to help just grow entitled even after going out of your way to help them. I think there's an incredibly large difference between the older players having to force feed the new people for them to be interested and the new people being able to participate in a meaningful way to grow their own characters. With everyone starting over I think new people would get a much more enriching experience and actually want to stick around.

Making new characters in a game where some characters are stronger than low tier groups just isn't the same experience as everyone being on the same fresh playing field. Instead of just tolerating them as leeches/rot looters you would get to build your characters with them and make them feel like what they are doing is meaningful.
 
The server resets goal is to have new players on a more level field and not have it just be a barren 1-65 experience and when they finally do hit 65 there is actually exp groups going on for them to be a part of. I like the idea some days and hate it others but honestly I don't see how the population improves short of that anymore(and then there is the whole server dies because everyone actually gives up/ doesn't want to be in on it). Second server? who knows. Start a kickstarter and use the funds to outsource a bunch of Indians to play the low end game.

Deein is certainly right that new players/the population is certainly the issue. However changes like some people have been suggesting would certainly help towards player retention which is a huge factor into that. I know a lot of newbies tough it out till the higher levels, realize what comes at 65 and then quit. Having content revolve around lower player count could bring part of the magic lleoc is talking about which is definitely a crucial thing.
 
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Ludovician said:
Edit: The only thing I'd be on board with (and I don't even know if its possible) is a temporary lockout from all existing characters, sort of emulating a server reset. For 6 months, a year, whatever. As long as all my progress isn't deleted. I might even come back for that event.
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This ... would be interesting.
 
Salarus said:
It absolutely is a solution. It may be a temporary (10 year?) solution, but I don't see the problem with that.
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It isn't really a solution to the problem of making raids more accessible -- my saying that it pushes the problem off was a very optimistic slant on what the actual consequences of a server wipe would be.

I'm sure some folk would stick around/come back with a server wipe. But I'm equally sure that a lot of people would simply move on.

I know I would be one of them. Why? For me personally, the heart of why I play is because I enjoy cooperative exploration of an interesting storyline -- there's some pretty neat/deep lore in SoD to explore, I'm months of playtime in and there is still stuff I'm learning about / experiencing for the first time on my main. While there are storylines in Dalaya that I haven't experienced (for example, some deity quests), many of them I have already experienced, some multiple times. A game with content that takes months of in-game time to reach (even some that no one has reached yet?) isn't very conducive to server resets. For me, if the choice is between re-experiencing the MQ/Vah/etc. again and finding a new game with a completely new story, I will be choosing the new game every time -- and I will try to convince friends I play with here to join me there. Salarus, it seems like you don't share this viewpoint with me and would be happy to go through the same content with minor deity/alignment differences. Maybe enough people share your viewpoint for a server wipe to work, but I doubt it. /shrug

The only way I could imagine myself returning to SoD after a server wipe was if the storyline had completely changed -- e.g., Kaezul succeeded in conquering the world and now players are part of Kaezul's army fighting off the return of the Akheva (which is why Kaezul took over the world -- he knew only a strong empire would be able to defeat the Akheva). But then, it would be a completely different game (and everything that means for dev time, etc.).

Additionally, IMO a server wipe would do little to change the population dynamics which have led to this discussion. For the sake of argument, let's assume that a good chunk of people remain, and a good chunk of new people come, here is what I imagine will happen:
  • Experienced players and their friends will use their game knowledge to progress significantly faster than new players -- powering through content they've already learned.
  • In the short-term there will be a largish population in the low-levels, as casuals (and casual new players especially) will slowly progress, perhaps hitting T1-5 by the time top guilds are already T12+, however this population will hit bottlenecks (e.g., boes, tomes, relics) which are mostly controlled by the first group. The best of the individuals (as well as those with schedules more conducive to raiding) from this group will gradually migrate to the first group.
And then we're back at a situation where raiding is accessible to part of the population and inaccessible to another part.

Am I completely off base here?
 
In case of a server wipe I know I would move on. The amount of clicks doing a tradeskill requires isn't something I would do again and I would be too angsty at not having all those things again to restart.
 
Haenir said:
Additionally, IMO a server wipe would do little to change the population dynamics which have led to this discussion. For the sake of argument, let's assume that a good chunk of people remain, and a good chunk of new people come, here is what I imagine will happen:
  • Experienced players and their friends will use their game knowledge to progress significantly faster than new players -- powering through content they've already learned.
  • In the short-term there will be a largish population in the low-levels, as casuals (and casual new players especially) will slowly progress, perhaps hitting T1-5 by the time top guilds are already T12+, however this population will hit bottlenecks (e.g., boes, tomes, relics) which are mostly controlled by the first group. The best of the individuals (as well as those with schedules more conducive to raiding) from this group will gradually migrate to the first group.
And then we're back at a situation where raiding is accessible to part of the population and inaccessible to another part.

Am I completely off base here?
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this is all true but welcome to any EQ server that wipes. The wipe is probably not the answer for SoD I can see more people leaving then staying. sadly =(
 
Haenir said:
Additionally, IMO a server wipe would do little to change the population dynamics which have led to this discussion. For the sake of argument, let's assume that a good chunk of people remain, and a good chunk of new people come, here is what I imagine will happen:
  • Experienced players and their friends will use their game knowledge to progress significantly faster than new players -- powering through content they've already learned.
  • In the short-term there will be a largish population in the low-levels, as casuals (and casual new players especially) will slowly progress, perhaps hitting T1-5 by the time top guilds are already T12+, however this population will hit bottlenecks (e.g., boes, tomes, relics) which are mostly controlled by the first group. The best of the individuals (as well as those with schedules more conducive to raiding) from this group will gradually migrate to the first group.
And then we're back at a situation where raiding is accessible to part of the population and inaccessible to another part.

Am I completely off base here?
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There are two things that change the outcome you think is likely. Here is what I've seen from every MMO I've played.

1. Those who play the most, go the furthest. This game isn't' about skill. There is very little involved, and honestly up until I started playing Frogger while playing SOD, and watching the raid die to tiny little wisps, everything was more about numbers than anything. Sure, some strategies will make content easier (read: old thaz 1) but most content is about having numbers, which comes from advancing your character.

The reason this is relevant is if there is a wipe, it won't just be old players, but new players who play a lot as well advancing, just like it used to be, and will likely always be on MMOs.

2. There isn't the bandwidth to support constantly raising the floor. I know we aren't supposed to assume what can/can't be done, but this isn't the first time the floor has needed to be raised. This has been something that has been needed for a long time, and the amount of time it would take to re-tool everything, or even enough to make a difference is likely out of reach. And even then, the game would still be "here let me have ringer X carry you till you're on tier" which is really boring, and a good reason why new players drop off in the first place.
 
I am inclined to agree with the people who are against a server wipe for reasons that have already been stated, but let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are valid reasons to consider one. Why not, instead of nuking this server, just set up a second one where everyone has to create a new toon. Mirror the content, patches, etc. on the new realm but leave the old one for the rest of us to play on. Admittedly, it would cost some computing resources to operate two realms instead of one, but perhaps that is something which donations could be raised for... Any thoughts on this?
 
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I'm sure if they could keep populations healthy in both servers they would. as it stands now losing anyone from the primary server would dramatically hurt anything they did.
 
I like the idea of a 2nd server if it is possible.

Maybe do something like what Haenir said. Instead of 'freezing' this server, open a new one, and in a couple years combine the two?
 
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