Quiver of the Mind

Eustace

Eustace

Dalayan Adventurer
Quiver of the Mind is an item that summons Nightmare Arrows. It has a re-cast of 1 hour. The arrows it summons are no-rent.

This is a great item in that it summons arrows better than you can fletch (fletching still hasn't been revamped) and better than a mage can summon. However, these arrows are not the best in the game - Burning Arrows from ToT are better.

The main issue with this item is that you have to be on for 6 hours in order to summon enough arrows to last an hour and a half. On top of that, the arrows are no-rent, so you have to hope to high hell you don't get disconnected, the server doesn't get patched, etc. Being offline for 20 minutes while sitting on the toilet means you come back to a massive loss of time.

I'd like to see the recast on this item dropped to 15 or 30 minutes, or the NO RENT removed from the arrows.

This would be balanced because:

A fletching revamp was promised, built, and then stowed in the broom closet well over a year ago. (Ranger is the only class that has to constantly spend pp or beg for summoned items to do their normal job: range.)

Being forced to beg for mage info or grind up one (or more) mages so you can summon heartseekers for yourself when you want them (2 hour recast on those btw) wasn't part of the job description when I signed up to be a ranger.

Quiver of the Mind is moderately rare on the loot table of the guy who drops it. (It's also not targetable, so other people can't target me and click.)

Thanks!
 
Hmm, by nature all summoned items are no-rent. So i guess removing the NO RENT part from the arrows is never going to be an option really.

You'll have to hope for a reduced casting time here.
 
I agree with this very much, and think that upping the recast on the quiver to make the arrows no longer no rent would be preferable (to me). If that cannot happen, I think a 30 minute recast is sufficient both for balancing, and for the rangers who obtain this item.

As stated, this item is extremely rare, and some rangers farm the mob for months trying to get one. The 10 damage arrows are indeed nice, but they aren't anything overpowered when compared to Heartseekers. Unless you have several mage bots all with RC7 items, then getting Heartseekers is just a pain.

I think the fact that rangers go through so many arrows (even with Returning Shot) makes this request a fair one as I know myself and other rangers go through about 5-6 stacks every 2 hours (recast on Nightmare arrows is currently 1 hour and Heartseekers are 2 hours). This means that over a course of 4 hours, the ranger has to use fletched arrows, or just go into low dps melee mode.

Changing the Quiver of the Mind to produce more arrows over an extended period of time is something that should definitely be changed.
 
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Zaknafean said:
Why not get the Vah summon arrow item if getting arrows period is such an issue?
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Those are 3 damage arrows whereas Heartseekers are 9 and Nightmares are 10. Going from 9 to 10 isn't a huge increase, but going from 9 to 3 is a huge decrease.
 
BeittilBonker said:
Hmm, by nature all summoned items are no-rent. So i guess removing the NO RENT part from the arrows is never going to be an option really.

You'll have to hope for a reduced casting time here.
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The Squirrel Pouch thing makes no drop, but not no rent squirrels.
 
I have the vah clicky, and I use it. However, there's a big difference between the two. If you'd like to get on Eustace and try them out, you'll see how big it is. Send me a tell in game if you're interested, Cyzaine.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the current fletching implementation, but having access to 10 damage arrows when you otherwise would be forced to use 8 damage arrows is a pretty big boost in power don't you think?

For anybody that doesn't know each point of arrow damage adds 10% to your bow damage.
 
Wesell said:
I'm not a huge fan of the current fletching implementation, but having access to 10 damage arrows when you otherwise would be forced to use 8 damage arrows is a pretty big boost in power don't you think?

For anybody that doesn't know each point of arrow damage adds 10% to your bow damage.
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Well, that's part of the problem Wesell. You're not "forced" to use 8 damage arrows. The most accessible arrows are 3dmg.

After extensive parsing, I've come to the conclusion that there is a massive difference between 5 and 3 dmg arrows. However, anything over 5dmg doesn't appear to be that much greater of a difference - the main difference is in less misses. Using lower dmg arrows gives a much larger percent of misses than using a higher dmg arrow. Higher dmg arrows either cost an exorbitant amount of plat or require the use of a mage. Using a mage is cheaper and less time-intensive in the long run, and it will continue to be this way until a fletching revamp goes in or an item such as Quiver of the Mind is changed.

By the way, if the vah clicky was changed to summon heartseekers every 15 minutes instead of changing Quiver of the Mind, that would also be more than acceptable.
 
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The damage on the Nightmare arrows could also be changed to 9damage 1poison making them slightly better than Heartseekers. This would make a recast of 15-30 minutes more feasible.
 
Eustace said:
Using lower dmg arrows gives a much larger percent of misses than using a higher dmg arrow.
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Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying this is due to mitigation to zero (showing as a miss) or is there some other mechanic in place with archery?
 
Idk I was under the impression that these super high damage arrows were meant not to be the main source of arrows for a ranger. Just letting every hour some peak damage for some time, just in line with the Heartseekers - and ToT's, but there's quite a tier difference between low-mid PoN and ToT, plus ToT's is expandable (I mean one use) or we're not talking of the same thing ?
Rest of the arrows is right at either infinite low dmg, pickupables mid damage, or buyable high dmg. Lowering the cast time would seem to make this overpowering to me.
 
Rorne said:
Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying this is due to mitigation to zero (showing as a miss) or is there some other mechanic in place with archery?
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Mitigation to zero is shown as a miss.

Arrow damage adds 1% per damage level to total damage. Therefore, a higher bonus means less misses.

The argument here is going to be "oh, 10% bonus is too overpowered. Leave it like it is." However, you're looking at it from the wrong point of view. Arrows are like a focus effect for rangers that is consumed with use. Using a 10 damage arrow doesn't so much improve a ranger's bow hits so much as using a 1 damage arrow reduces the effectiveness of the bow hit.

Bow hits are also extremely variable. Even using 10dmg arrows, I get chains of up to 8 misses in a row. However, with 3dmg arrows, I've had chains of twice that and worse in misses. Using a higher damage arrow makes the hits more consistent. Should a ranger have to rely on a mage to summon (which still uses a fire opal) or spend 10pp per stack on arrows which will be consumed in less than 10 minutes in order to reduce their number of misses?
 
Eustace said:
Quiver of the Mind is moderately rare on the loot table of the guy who drops it. (It's also not targetable, so other people can't target me and click.)
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I also don't see the harm in changing it to be targetable, at least then if there are no rangers on a raid when it drops the click still has some utility for whichever class loots it.
 
Dzillon said:
Idk I was under the impression that these super high damage arrows were meant not to be the main source of arrows for a ranger. Just letting every hour some peak damage for some time, just in line with the Heartseekers - and ToT's, but there's quite a tier difference between low-mid PoN and ToT, plus ToT's is expandable (I mean one use) or we're not talking of the same thing ?
Rest of the arrows is right at either infinite low dmg, pickupables mid damage, or buyable high dmg. Lowering the cast time would seem to make this overpowering to me.
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These are not "super high damage arrows." Nightmare arrows are 10. Heartseekers are 9. Silver Steel Bodkins are 8. (Why can you summon arrows better than you can fletch?)

You can basically infinitely run off Silver Steels or Heartseekers (if you have 2 mages and you're not using a really fast bow.) I'm requesting this because the fletching system is messed up and still hasn't been fixed, and a ranger should not have to rely on a mage because the fletching is messed up.

What it boils down to: Grind up mage (s) or beg for mage infos, or spend a ton of pp in arrow costs. (Fletching costs about 18kpp to grind up to make the 8dmg arrows, then you have to spend pp on them every time you want to range something. Oh wait, rangers should just melee, right?)
 
I'm guessing because some of them are infused with a magician's mastery of the elements, some are imbued with the power of nightmares, some are consumed by the fury of the flame lord, and some were made by an elf with some sticks.
 
robopirateninja said:
I'm guessing because some of them are infused with a magician's mastery of the elements, some are imbued with the power of nightmares, some are consumed by the fury of the flame lord, and some were made by an elf with some sticks.
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An elf with a mastery of fletching should be able to make better arrows out of squirrel fur, two sticks, and a rock than a mage can summon who doesn't know which end you nock on the bow string.
 
These arrows were always meant to be just a short boost to DPS - not a long term arrow solution. In fact the idea of stockpiling them over time is a bit imbalanced and I do not think Thinkmeats figured it would be very widespread.
 
Can we have a long-term arrow solution then, since fletching has been broken for so long and is now on the back burner?
 
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