Question for Newer Guilds

diolas

Dalayan Beginner
I was just curious if your MT's are able to hold agro during raids? (this question isn't for guilds who 'import' their MT from other guilds).

Any problems in normal xp groups with tank holding agro?


I know a lot of agro changes have been made in the past. Sometimes with the players knowledge, other times not. While the backbone of these changes are made for the highest end raiding situations I was curious what sort of impact they have had for up and coming guilds as well as the casual player (casual groups etc.).
 
Fast heals (chloroblast) pull a ton of aggro and nukes will cause quite a bit of pingponging. We had some difficulty taking out our first Dark Boned Dragon the other night due to this (but got him on 3rd try :rock: ). We are trying to remedy this with new weapons so we'll see what happens after that is done.
 
diolas said:
(this question isn't for guilds who 'import' their MT from other guilds).

Don't even go there. We do not want more high end guild drama of ANY kind and I will stop it dead in its tracks before it ever starts, no matter who or how many I have to ban.

I hope I've made myself clear.
 
Jerason had a LOT of trouble holding agro in experience groups. So much so that I gave up and generally just let Ramblo tank. At least he could hold agro without losing DPS by him having to feign all the time. This was even when he had his Ytraz and a Gripper Tentacle. Now he has a Ragebearer so I'm not sure how it would change things.

I hate ping ponging...yet it seems to always happen when warriors are tanking instead of a monk with some decent proc'ing weapons (the 13/20 from King Rymaz, I totally can't remember the name) and say the Crimson Fists of Wrecking. It could also be due to the casters just loving to nuke the ever loving shit out of the mobs, but who knows?
 
I have a ton of trouble keeping aggro with my ogre war, but I accredit it to the lack of good weapons and lower level. I find it near impossilbe in raid situations to keep aggro, and just slightly annoying in xp group situations. There is usually less chance for ping ponging when I group for xp vs raid, so that may also have something to do with it.
 
Raiding situations is god aweful. Constantly losing agro to Monks and Rogues is not fun, but I guess something we have to deal with.
 
Get a Thingypoker in main hand and a Mostercraft Dagger in secondary (One is 9dly and other is 10dly) or if you have one use a Sharp little claw and the Thingypoker, you will be hitting so fast should help to hold aggro a bit easier.
 
Grachnist said:
Get a Thingypoker in main hand and a Mostercraft Dagger in secondary (One is 9dly and other is 10dly) or if you have one use a Sharp little claw and the Thingypoker, you will be hitting so fast should help to hold aggro a bit easier.


And suffer twice as many repostes, which if something is hitting for 800 isn't too desirable..
 
Kjia and Maimai said:
Grachnist said:
Get a Thingypoker in main hand and a Mostercraft Dagger in secondary (One is 9dly and other is 10dly) or if you have one use a Sharp little claw and the Thingypoker, you will be hitting so fast should help to hold aggro a bit easier.


And suffer twice as many repostes, which if something is hitting for 800 isn't too desirable..

True.....true. Guess thats not a very good idea for raid situations, but for an Exp group it wont be nearly as bad for riposts.
 
Grachnist said:
Kjia and Maimai said:
Grachnist said:
Get a Thingypoker in main hand and a Mostercraft Dagger in secondary (One is 9dly and other is 10dly) or if you have one use a Sharp little claw and the Thingypoker, you will be hitting so fast should help to hold aggro a bit easier.


And suffer twice as many repostes, which if something is hitting for 800 isn't too desirable..

True.....true. Guess thats not a very good idea for raid situations, but for an Exp group it wont be nearly as bad for riposts.

Yea, see low delay weapons came to mind, but as Maimai said, it won't help when raiding and that is when I/we stuggle most it seems. I am finishing up my RHLS quest, and will be starting the quest for Ytrazliarch, hoping that those weapons might be of more use/help in xp groups (where I stuggle the least keeping aggro), but was wondering what weapons I can buy/quest that would help with raid/type situations. Anyone have any suggestions?
 
The issue is mostly Warrior reliance on lots of AAs and aggro weapons, which are not readily available until around the time you can get a Ragebearer. We will need and probably soon add warrior aggro weapons (secondaries, like their high end counterparts) to all levels of the game that are fairly attainable, either off nameds of Adepts.

Until then, try using an SK tank. I think you'll find they have no problem using aggro. But, as I said, we'll try to get warrior aggro weapons added in soon, in addition to maybe reducing their reliance on AAs for aggro a bit. :)
 
I'll elaborate on what happens when Kathor MT's on Venerate raids.

Basically, Kathor CAN hold decent agro, but its purely based on whether or not Cmal Gloves will land, and if AE taunt is up or not. Those two factors play the biggest role in warrior taunt. If gloves cannot land, Kathor has no chance at holding agro on a mob.

Basically, their is a lack of agro weapons you can get until nart/gotss. Ytraz is nice, but it doesn't proc *that* often from experience. Wailfury, on the other hand, procs quite often. Ragebearer, I'm not sure of yet, but hopefully we can get Kathor one of those soon to test out.
 
Yeah, warriors do run into some aggro problems prior to getting high end weapons (and Cmal3 gloves). Paladins have identical probles if their spells don't land (i.e. on raid mobs). Not sure about SKs, but I think they have an unresistable line of aggro spells.

As for exp groups, generally when I'm grouped with Kathor there are no aggro problems as long as I wait to slow until the mob is a little lower. It's a fair tradeoff--when Ritt is tanking I can slow on pull, but he's got a good 600 or 700 less HP and around 100 less AC.

If it weren't for Cmal gloves and proc weapons, though, warriors would be pretty hopeless in a high DPS group. The idea of more proccing weapons sounds good, but I think more clicky aggro items should also at least be considered. Possibly a line of class-oriented quests with a gradually improving clicky . That offers a little more consistency in a warrior's ability to hold aggro than weapons which may go two fights in a row without proccing. Obviously you wouldn't want a level 25 to be able to quest an item that generates as much hate as a high end weapon proc or pally/SK spell. If the idea were to be implemented, it might even be worth making a new line of spells for the clicky items which scaled from, say, half as much aggro as one of the low end stuns (cease/desist) in the 20s up to something comparable to a blind in the 50s.

I would also suggest a moderate recast time, maybe 10 or 15 seconds, with a lasting effect (debuff-style) so that one resist wouldn't make the item useless for the rest of the fight à la Cmal2 gaunts with a minute-plus recast, but so that you couldn't chain cast it for unlimited aggro. If the effect stuck on the mob for a minute, it would give a solid boost to initial aggro, and wear off for an added boost on hard fights where you might have casters start burning, but it wouldn't be enough to remove the necessity for caution and teamwork in groups or lower end raids. It also wouldn't be enough to reduce the utility of paladins or SKs.
 
I can't comment on SoD SKs, but I had a 65 SK on live. The problems using them for tanks are:

- SKs seldom have the HP that a warrior has.

- the warriors don't do all tha tmuch DPS compared to heavy DPS classes, so if they're not tanking they don't seem to have a lot to do.
 
Zorch said:
I can't comment on SoD SKs, but I had a 65 SK on live. The problems using them for tanks are:

- SKs seldom have the HP that a warrior has.

- the warriors don't do all tha tmuch DPS compared to heavy DPS classes, so if they're not tanking they don't seem to have a lot to do.

Yes, that's basically the same here.

On another note, the Gripper Tentacle drops in Everchill from the Tentacl Terror(?) and has a hate proc on it. While it seems useful, I never noticed a difference in agro with and without it.
 
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