Question about ac

[Manguadi]

From the ToK

AC

AC directly translates into a % of potential damage reduction on hits. For example, 1500 AC is ~80% potential reduction. Then, a fourth of that is turned into certain reduction (meaning at 1500 AC you always reduce hits by at least 20%) and the rest is randomized for the true reduction number for a single hit (so reduction is anywhere from 20-80%, and on average 50%, at 1500 AC).

Now, from what I've been told by those with authority, a miss is just a hit that is mitigated to 0. Going by the above example, where a player has 80% potential mitigation, it seems that it would be impossible for a mob to miss that player. They might block, riposte, parry, etc, but they can only mitigate up to 80% of a mobs blow, so no real misses would appear. It is also my understanding that mobs have very few stats, and one of them is damage. This damage is just their max hit and they attempt to do it over and over again and the only cause for randomness if your own ac and avoidance stats combined with this random mitigation.

It seems to follow then that if you are missed, it implies that your potential mitigation against the mob you're attacking (dependent also on hazy figures like level difference) is above 100%. Essentially, that your true miss rate if you tanked the mob forever would be equal to your maximum mitigation % over 100.

I'm not asking for a specific formula, but what other factors complicate this equation? Is the same equation true in reverse (for players against monsters)? Do you have a bonus on lower level creatures to this mitigation, even odds against white cons, and penalties fighting red cons?

It seems like you can calculate the max hit for a white con mob (ignoring aux tanking) by taking

mob max hit against you
x4 (because this is the worst mitigation roll you can get)
divided by the total miss % of the mob times 100 (because it seems that this is your maximum mitigation based on the ToK description)

right?

 

[Cinn]

I too am curious about these numbers.

It would help considerably when evaluating gear while parsing.

I know exact formula's wont be given, but any information is better than assumptions.

 

[Dinadass]

Now, from what I've been told by those with authority, a miss is just a hit that is mitigated to 0.

Aren't there just plain old misses, too? Even on a character that doesn't have dodge/parry/block/etc, or a high enough AC to mitigate over 100% of a mobs damage, I'm pretty sure they will not get hit by every single mob attack.

 

[stope21]

From the ToKNow, from what I've been told by those with authority, a miss is just a hit that is mitigated to 0.

From my understanding, there are definitely misses too, but we need to first seek clarity before further examining this. Does a dodge, parry block, etc count as a miss?

Anyways, to answer this part: I think you may be a little confused as far as what a miss can be. A miss can be a hit mitigated to below your DR cap, and shows as such under an abbreviated - number only UI display. Only in the more full display will you see a "your magical skin absorbs the blow" (similar to that of a rune).

Going by the above example, where a player has 80% potential mitigation, it seems that it would be impossible for a mob to miss that player.

Again, back to my seeking clarity part. I would also like to agree with one of the previous posts about chars w/o block, dodge, etc skill having mobs miss them. A level one gets missed, maybe only because they have some defense skill? But I do not think so. I think mobs can innately miss (don't always hit).

They might block, riposte, parry, etc, but they can only mitigate up to 80% of a mobs blow, so no real misses would appear.

Also note, under an abbreviated - number only UI display, you only see a miss in the event of a dodge, block, parry etc instead of the appropriate defense skill success.

It is also my understanding that mobs have very few stats, and one of them is damage. This damage is just their max hit and they attempt to do it over and over again and the only cause for randomness if your own ac and avoidance stats combined with this random mitigation.

I don't believe a mob always hits for it's max. I think it has a range, but I am not completely certain. The reason I think this is because on a level 1, with low AC and no defense/defensive skills, mobs don't always hit for near their max, when they probably would under a system like this. The range of damage they take is just far too variable for it to likely be a max hit every time.



Anyways, I too agree this could use some examination, and any developed/coder input would be highly appreciated.

 

[Wiz]

A miss is nearly always a failed to hit roll, 100% mitigation is quite uncommon but would also create a miss.

Combat goes like this:
- Attacker rolls to hit
- If a miss, report a miss
- If a hit, attacker rolls base damage
- Defender rolls special avoidance rolls (parry, riposte, etc)
- Damage modifiers are rolled and applied (crits, armor, etc)
- If damage is now 0, report a miss
- If damage is over 0, apply damage and report a hit

 

[luciferblack]

If a hit is scored, but mitigated to zero and reported as a miss by the client, would that mean it wouldn't register to a damage shield either?

 

[Wiz]

If a hit is scored, but mitigated to zero and reported as a miss by the client, would that mean it wouldn't register to a damage shield either?

Indeed.

 

[Vartenaal]

If a hit is scored, but mitigated to zero and reported as a miss by the client, would that mean it wouldn't register to a damage shield either?

this can be easily seen if you have some damage reduction - go to a newb area and sit down near KoS mobs. your magic skin absorbs the blow or some such and they dont take DS dmg

 

[luciferblack]

Cool. I thought that might be the case. So I've never checked, but if you have any rune type spell on, mobs will not be hit by DS correct?

 

[Vartenaal]

if they hit for less than the rune, no they wont get hit with ds

 

[Manguadi]

A miss is nearly always a failed to hit roll, 100% mitigation is quite uncommon but would also create a miss.

Do mobs have a hit % then or is it entirely related to level difference? For instance, some lower-tiered red mobs miss significantly more on high ac characters than high-tiered red mobs. Also, there is an enormous difference between the miss rates of a blue con for a high ac character and a low ac character.

Is it possible that while 100% mitigation used to be uncommon it is more common with new gear?

 

[Wiz]

Do mobs have a hit % then or is it entirely related to level difference? For instance, some lower-tiered red mobs miss significantly more on high ac characters than high-tiered red mobs. Also, there is an enormous difference between the miss rates of a blue con for a high ac character and a low ac character.

Is it possible that while 100% mitigation used to be uncommon it is more common with new gear?

It's possible I suppose, but it would take 2000 AC to even get it uncommonly.

Hit rate depends on a lot of things but the base is DEX, offense and weapon skill vs DEX and defense. A high-tier NPC would have better stats and skills and thus a better hit rate, while a higher tier character would have defensive AAs etc.

 

[Manguadi]

It's possible I suppose, but it would take 2000 AC to even get it uncommonly.

Hit rate depends on a lot of things but the base is DEX, offense and weapon skill vs DEX and defense. A high-tier NPC would have better stats and skills and thus a better hit rate, while a higher tier character would have defensive AAs etc.

I really don't mean to be nit-picky, but would it be 2000 ac as represented on fomelo, and would spell AC buffs add directly to that number? There is a great deal of confusion between the client and the server as far as AC goes, and as a result I'm not entirely sure how the server calculates your total AC.

Some emulators had a neat function, #showstats, or something similar that would display accurate, server-side values for player stats for this reason.

 

[Titanas]

does ac Mitigate from the total damage that target could hit you for?
Ex..

Mob can hit for up to 100 with 50% mitigation would mean the highest he can now hit you for is 50
Mob rolls its chance to hit dex wep skill ect vs your dodge aa's parry block
Mob lands hit for 48 damage you mitigate 50 there for miss ?

so in order for it to deal damage it has to pass rolls vs your defense, block, parry, dodge, aa's then finaly deal high enough damage to not be completely mitigated out?

 

[Wiz]

I really don't mean to be nit-picky, but would it be 2000 ac as represented on fomelo, and would spell AC buffs add directly to that number? There is a great deal of confusion between the client and the server as far as AC goes, and as a result I'm not entirely sure how the server calculates your total AC.

Some emulators had a neat function, #showstats, or something similar that would display accurate, server-side values for player stats for this reason.

Fomelo is correct.

 

[Wiz]

does ac Mitigate from the total damage that target could hit you for?
Ex..

Mob can hit for up to 100 with 50% mitigation would mean the highest he can now hit you for is 50
Mob rolls its chance to hit dex wep skill ect vs your dodge aa's parry block
Mob lands hit for 48 damage you mitigate 50 there for miss ?

so in order for it to deal damage it has to pass rolls vs your defense, block, parry, dodge, aa's then finaly deal high enough damage to not be completely mitigated out?

Damage calcs works on a random range of max / 2 + rand(max / 2), so if your max damage is 100 you will get a random base damage of 50-100 which is then randomly mitigated. It's all setup to allow for a wide dispersion of damage numbers.

 

[Wiz]

Yeah, my bad, Fomelo does not actually have the correct calcs. Ingame is usually very close to serverside AC though, rarely more than 20-30 points off.