Poison focus for Shaman

Malleus2

Dalayan Elder
Due to my apparent addiction to this game I tend to keep track of what gear other high-end shaman use. A few months back I noted my counterparts in <Steel> sporting a neck item that seemed a bit better suited for the shaman than the Woven Ivy Choker. Upon receiving my own Choker of Putrefied Gore a few weeks later I was quite pleased to see the boost to my two best dots. Then last week it came to light that the poison and disease foci were affecting the wrong dots and the staff quickly moved to fix it. Of course fixing the effect was the right thing to do but it left shaman with little choice for a poison focus.

I spent quite some time today checking as many people as I could on Fomelo, scouring the wiki and talking to people in game in order to document the available focuses. I’m sure the list is not entirely complete but the items I have found so far can be found here. (**Please note I have moved the list from this post as I felt the discussion of the broader topic of elemental focus items warranted its own thread in Classes and Gear.)

Sivyana's Malice (6% Poison)
Armbands of Tortured Souls (nec)

Vile Poisons (4% Poison)
Zahnea's Virulent Quill (all)

Venomous Channelling (2% Poison)
Flowing Robe of the Watch (clr/enc/mag/nec/wiz)
Focus of the Serpent (nec)

Although I have omitted where these items come from I can say that all the 6% items are available starting with items in IP and Valor B. Browsing the list one can quickly see that items for fire, cold and even magic are fairly well represented with several choices for the classes that might want that focus while poison and disease items are sorely lacking.

The only shaman useable poison focus item I did find was Zahnea’s Virulent Quill which drops from extremely difficult treasure maps.



The quill itself is quite a nice item when considered on its own. The stats are on par with CoD and lower IP gear in general and wearable by all classes. But when you start to compare it to the range items a shaman has to chose from starting with Yashira and working up through the tiers it becomes less and less desireable.



The fact is, once you are raiding Thazeran’s Tower and Tower of Tarhyl the lower stats bolstered only by a 4% focus makes this item very lack luster.

Some may argue that shaman don’t really need more dps as their role is to slow, debuff and heal but I would beg to differ. The strength of the shaman class has always been its versatility. Our heals and dots are not as good as the clerics, druids and necros but we do stand ready to provide whatever is needed in any given encounter. Also at this stage of the game your guilds clerics and druids normally handle all the healing on trash mobs leaving you to dot for faster kills and added dot damage mitigation on your tank after slows and debuffs have landed. Even in some of the less intense boss encounters I can keep my relic on the target and still provide ample secondary healing output.

As such Id like to offer two different remedies to fix this gap in shaman gear.

Before I outline my ideas I thought it best to show the scope of the upgrade suggested. With Affliction Enhancement 7 and nearly 2 tomes completed my relic dot does 3582 (dd + 4ticks of dot) without crits. A 4% boost means 143 points more damage. 6% works out to 214 points more damage. An upgrade from 4% to 6% yields 71 points of damage.

Option 1: Add Sivyana’s Malice (6%) to the Spirit Caller Greaves.

By the time most shaman are upgrading to the Spirit Caller Greaves they are likely wearing the Zejav legs from IP so here they are for comparison.



The most notable upgrade is the single point of FT and the saves. Note there is no mana increase. By comparison a druid upgrading from Zejav to their Thaz legs gains 20 mana and 2 FT.

Of course Thaz gear is not built on a set formula (ie: FT on legs, MC on arms) so I compiled the stats on the complete sets of priest Thaz gear for comparison. Note that as the shaman bracer is unknown (I blame Volkov and Finster for this) I have been forced to omit bracers from the totals. Given that the cleric and druid bracers are very similar I assume the shaman one also falls within similar guidelines.

Cleric:
1160mana, 985hp, 225ac, 47 to each save, 295 points to stats, 2FT and 5 focuses (range inc, duration inc, bane, mana cons and casting speed)

Druid:
1120mana, 960hp, 122ac, 49 to each save, 258 points to stats, 3FT and 6 focuses (damage inc, mana cons, casting speed, duration inc, healing inc and recovery 5)

Shaman:
1005mana, 770hp, 159ac, 44 to each save, 287 points to stats, 2FT and 6 focuses (swarm mastery, range inc, casting speed, mana cons, affliction enhancement and recovery 8)

As you can see the AC falls where you would expect given the materials that make up each armour. The stat points are close with druids getting the worst of it. Shaman get 6 focuses they would desire as do druids whereas clerics only get 5 (where are you HI7?!?). It is readily apparent though, that shaman lag way behind in mana and HP.

In short I don’t feel a roughly 70 point increase (200 if working from no poison focus) is unbalancing nor do I feel the addition of this focus would make the shaman Thaz armour set a superior armour set to the other priests, rather it would close the sizeable mana and HP gap.

Option 2: Add Vile Poisons (4%) to the Spirit Caller Greaves and add change a shaman useable item available from encounters above Thaz to have Sivyana’s Malice. After creating an exhaustive list of drops from the top end raid zones and considering the lore as well as the ramifications of the change on the people that have (or may be planning to obtain) the item I have in mind I think I have a workable item but Ill save the explanation in the hopes option one is suitable.

I now invite your comments, questions and suggestions.
 
Flowing Robe of the Watch has Venomous Channeling, and is clr/nec/wiz/mag/enc
Dis' Shank of Betrayal has a magic dmg focus
Sun-Forged Focusing ruby has "Eternal Flame", and is dr/nec/wiz/mag
There's a range slot item from nightmare with focused blight
 
Thanks Tyrone. I was hoping people would respond with items I had not found for the sake of completeness both for an accurate discussion of availble focus items and because I will likely add the list to the Wiki for others to reference.
 
Focused Flame (4% Fire)
Refined Explosive Boulder


Magic Lore No Drop
Pri/Sec
Ac5
Focus - Focused FLame
Effect Burst of Flame (clicky, 1.0)
SKill Mod Evocation 10
STA10 / AGI5 / WIS5 / INT5 / CHA10
HP15 MANA75
FR17 CR7
weight 7.3 size giant
ALL/ALL



Appearance is an inverted sandstorm shield... held roughly inside my body. When it comes out, it looks like I am about to Captain America shield throw on someone. With that name, I was hoping it would be sparkly.
 
Anyone know someone using Dis' Shank of Betrayal and the Refined Explosive Boulder so I can Fomelo for classes?
 
Quartos has the boulder, it's all/all
The shank is also a decent rogue dagger, but all the ones we looted are rotting in banks on offline chars I don't have info for =/ I'll get back to ya when I can
 
The info for the only person with the shank...well the page ripped right at his stuff but I found a copy of the rnage

I'm sure TM could get you a link if you need

EQ000021.jpg
 
robopirateninja said:
Skywatcher's Journal has no focus on it other than casting inc that I can see

Good point, he has the larvae but apparently wasn't equipping it when the focus was working for poison and not disease.
 
Also remebered a War loot

Arms of the Leper
AC: 18
Focus Effect: Focused Blight
Sta: 5 Wis: 10 Int: 10 Cha: -10 Hp: 55 Mana: 55
Mr: 5 Fr: 5 Pr: -5 Dr: -5
Weight: .1 Size: Small
Class: Shd Shm Nec
Race: All

:D

Ugh it's bugging me I really wish I would have done more than just write some names into Wiki
 
Malleus, Courage, Sapphire of Enthann has the cold 6% focus on it as well, and you made an excellent post, hope to see the poison focus added to the spritcaller greaves!
 
Thanks to everyone that has replied with items I missed on the list. As the original intent of the post was to get the poison focus added to a shaman useable item and I felt the topic of elemental focus item availability in general was worthy of its own discussion I have moved the list here. If you have any further items to add please post in that thread so I can keep it as complete as possible.

As to my request for addition of the focus Im surprised I have had zero responses discussing it. I know Xavu and Lytec are not around a lot these days but I know there are a number of shaman that will be raiding on this teir in the coming months that it should be very relevant to. Hell, at this point after having spent 6 hours researching in the hopes of making a solid post (good thing Im the guy at my place of employment that is paid to make sure the staff arent wasting their days pissing around on the internet :p) I'd be happy with some nonshaman telling me Im off my rocker and dont need this focus, its over powered, unbalancing, unfair and my breath smells. So long as they can back up their assertations of course.
 
Incoming Shamans! :p

I have read all the post thoroughly and first of all I have to admit you did a great post there (and great idea with the other one post gathering all focus effects).

Secondly, it is clear, after reading the post that we have 2 problems or things to discuss there:

1) The lack of Poison Focus for Shamans in our tier, what Malleus tries to discuss.
It's true that we have NO option to get a worth item to use which has a poison modifier for dots (which are our dots, as every shaman would use relic and caress and only go to disease dots for inmune to poison mobs). And it is true poison dots plays an important role for us raiding (like the example of dotting trash when heals are ok) or exping/soloing.

2) The less powerful Thaz Gear compared to Cleric/Druid one.
This is another problem on its own: 120/150mana less, 200HP less etc... seems like Shaman Thaz Gear is behind other priests' class one. I could understand it having a bit less mana as we can canni and all of that, but in that case it should have some more HP than the others for example.

Malleus tries to solve those both problems by suggesting an addition of this effect (4%) to one of the Shaman Thaz Gear, which seems pretty fair, and after adding the effect (6%) to any item that drop from top raid zones.

Now, I think that for the focii effect for poison dots something should be done. I'm sure there is some any high end top raid zone that has any item which this effect could be added (even lessening a bit its stat to make it balanced, I would preffer having the effect rather than 20 mana extra for example).

And for the Thaz Gear, adding the 4% effect to the pants can be a good idea, but I don't think it could solve the problem of the gap between this set and druid/cleric one. This is something staff could have a look at it if they feel that the reasons and numbers shown are valid and enough to make a change on this gear.
 
I am out of town for the holidays as well are some of the other devs if your curious as to why we have not yet responded.

Basically my opinion comes down to this: The lack of focus is indeed a item progression gap BUT just making another crazy useful lower thaz armor piece is not my idea of a "fix" to it. When I get home (or before) I am going to talk to the other devs about disseminating the focus onto a few items throughout the tiers. I think the disease focus might need this as well.
 
Thanks for taking the time to look into the focus issue.

Waldoff said:
just making another crazy useful lower thaz armor piece is not my idea of a "fix" to it. ... disseminating the focus onto a few items throughout the tiers.

Consider this: if you Fomelo every single other priest in Ruin, Steel, Forsaken and Exodus you will see they are wearing Thaz legs (upgraded or not) or Zejav legs. This would indicate to me that there are no better legs out there for priest in general and shaman specifically. Given this fact I fail to see how adding a small amount of damage boost to them makes them any less a must have item. Add to that the fact that the shaman legs are only an upgrade to Zejav due to one flowing thought and the shaman Thaz gear is statistically the weakest of all the priests a small boost is not out of line.

I spent several hours compiling a list of ALL the drops I could find from ToT, upper and lower Thaz, Valor B, ED Tmaps, Clockwork, Ulaz and Ghar in search of an item that wasnt already jammed with stats and focii to suggest the focus be added to. I wont publish the full list here as Im sure many people dont want a complete list of what mob drops what piece of armour floating around as well Im sure you already have that info. My choice of the shaman thaz greaves was based on adding the focus to an item that was not already very powerful.

Here is a list of the shaman usable items you might add the focus with some comments on suitability and current effects

Decent Candidates:
- Woven Ivy Choker (all but pure melee) – has FT2 but would compete directly with Choker of Purified Gore
- Chrystaline Monocle (priests and silkies) – has RI 7, likely the best choice as very few seem to use it.
- Coral-crusted Spaulders (wis users) – has MC7
- Cape of Lucid Energy (all) – resist item currently sporting melee stats, adding poison focus alone would not make this more attractive than Reverence, Writhing Drape or even Combine with its FT2
- Adaptable Tinkered Jewelry (all) – No other effects but already almost a must have due to high mana, hp and resists
- Knowledge of the End (all) – has minus 5 agro

Poor Candidates (doesn’t fit lore or already sporting numerous effects):
- Molten Waistband (all) – has DI7, doesn’t fit the lore
- Earthen Core (all) – has Duration Inc 7 and Recovery 6
- Charged Puresteel Band (priests) – HI7, FT2, find me a top tier priest NOT already using this item
- Hammer of the Depths (priests) – already a must have item
- Pulsing Coldstone Loop (priests and silkies) – has Cold focus
- Soulspike (priests, silkies) – has FT2, already a must have
- Sandstone Girdle (wis users) – has healing focus
- Brimstone Buckler (priests and silkies) – has FT2, already a must have
- Zalnok’s Frontal Lobe (all) – has magic focus
- Teardrop Bead (all) – has 44% haste and melee stats
- Moonglow Orb (wis users) – has Companion Health 7 and FT1
- Glacial Eye (all but pure melee) – has cold focus and FT1
- Ancient Blood Stained Finery – has HI7 and a healing proc
- The Immortal (all) – has death pact clicky and huge resists but otherwise extremely weak in stats.
- Odessi’s Shimmering Silk Kimono (priests and silkies) – has MC6 and concussion proc
- Jhahdiel’s Relentless Wraps (priests and silkies) – has magic focus
- Bravery, Choker of Enthann (priests and silkies) – has RI7, poison doesn’t fit with Enthann lore
- Honor, Signet of Enthann (all) – has RI7 and FT1, poison doesn’t fit with Enthann lore
- Courage, Sapphire of Enthann (priests and silkies) – has cold focus and FT1, poison doesn’t fit with Enthann lore
- Virtue, Visor of Enthann (all) – has fire focus and unique worn effect, poison doesn’t fit with Enthann lore
- Perception, Eye of the Father (all) – has truesight, already hard to replace due to very high mana
- Reverance, Drape of Divinity (all but pure melee) – has MC6, already hard to replace due to very high mana
- Immaculate Scrying Mirror (priests and enchanters) – has FT2 and 25% divination
- Thrice-damned Shawl (priests and silkies) – has DI7 and FT1
- Writhing Drape of Knotted Veins (shm/dru/ench/nec/brd/sk/rng/bst) - has FT1 and DI7
- Choker of Putrified Gore (shm/sk/nec/bst) - has FT2 and disease focus
- Numerous upper ToT and PS items that are obtainable only to the top 1% of shaman where other comparable focuses are obtainable in IP (Chaplet of Fiends, Coreslet of the Caliph, Armguards of Nobility, Melting Stone, Emblazoned Sash of the Presidium, Ash Dusted Gauntlets, Bracer of Forgotten Battles, Shroud of the Hellions, Grasp of Engulfing Flames...)

I would imagine I have overlooked some item somewhere but the list should be fairly complete. Simply adding this focus to an item that very few people will see (PS, upper ToT) or to an item no one would take over numerous other items with far superior stats simply for the sake of saying "hey, there are items with this focus" does not solve the problem at all. Fire, cold, magic and even poison for necros are available prior to these encounters. No player is going to take a down grade on more important stats for 200pts of damage over the course of 4 ticks (especially when melee can accomplish this damage in one swing).

Of course an item could have an exsisting effect removed to make room for the poison focus but due to the fact that only shaman and necros would desire this focus you run the risk of removing something that numerous other classes use the item for. I had thought replacing the damage increment on the Writhing Drape of Knotted Veins might suffice as damage increment 7 is available on so many other items. I did a Fomelo on all the people in Ruin, Steel and Forsaken that could have that item and found only Temellin did not have DI on any other piece of gear (although he is still using Goldram and could upgrade to Molten Waistband quite easily).

The point is considering Thaz and ToT are the current pinacle of raiding (PS aside) most items there are the last ones you will upgrade to. I personally don’t think adding the focus to the shaman greaves makes them over powered or any more irreplaceable than they already are. In addition to adding it to the greaves I would also welcome the focus being added to other items in a similar tier to the cold, fire and magic focuses as I believe players should have several choices for gear and not be forced into one specific item to satisfy a gearing need.
 
Woven Ivy Choker or Crystalline Monocle are probably the best candidates of the ones listed, but you have to be careful changing focus effects on items that already have them unless the focus is game-breaking. Cape of Lucid Energy was primarily designed as a melee-friendly resist cloak.
 
I think the monocle is a better choice than the choker for 2 reasons. First, putting it on the Woven Ivy Choker puts it in direct competition with the only shaman useable disease focus (Choker of Putrified Gore). Although we dont tend to use both dot types on raids I frequently use both when grouping/soloing. Secondly, the Crystaline Monocle seems to have few users as range increment is available on numerous items (and in many cases you AEs are not outrangeable). The Woven Ivy Choker on the other hand is already very widely sought due to its high mana, 2FT and broader class scope.

Id be quite happy to see the 6% on the monocle and the 4% focus put on the Spirit Caller Greaves so shaman without the monocle can have the focus and still opt for a better ranged item than the Tmap quill as they progress through the tiers.
 
Some may argue that shaman don’t really need more dps as their role is to slow, debuff and heal but I would beg to differ. The strength of the shaman class has always been its versatility. Our heals and dots are not as good as the clerics, druids and necros but we do stand ready to provide whatever is needed in any given encounter.
First off, let me just say I couldnt agree more!

You actually bring up two interesting points here, one being the lack of this focus on items for shamans, the other being that shaman thaz gear seem sadly lacking in hp and mana compared to other healing classes. I really think that maybe shamans should be added to some of the current items or new items should be designed... As for putting the effect on the thaz class gear I dont necessarily agree this is the best way to go... I do think that the thaz gear should be balanced a bit so that shamans arent left that far behind though compared to other healers... your totals just dont look right... but thats a separate issue.. Id rather see some other items with this focus on.
 
It seems that either the screen captures we have in the Ruin forum on Thaz armour contain some pre tuning information or I messed up the math somewhere. Here is a screen cap of a spread sheet I did from Fomelos of the Thaz priest gear for those that are interested. (note: I used functions to do the calcs so the math is right)



Note also the shaman bracer is in red as it is pure speculation based on the cleric and druid bracer stats. Seems the stats are not that far apart : /

So argue what you may regarding whether poison focus on the shaman greaves is warranted but since Xeldan and Woldaff seem to agree that poison (and disease) focus are severly lacking on shaman gear I look forward to some changes when the staff have time in their busy schedules.
 
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