Pet changes

vistachiri said:
From what I've seen the shaman pet seems to die pretty often, like every few mobs. Druid pets seem to be able to take alot more punishment from simply observation though I'm not sure of the exact numbers and havent seen them duke it out. Of course seeing as a druid pet is usually ds'ed + gets a few buffs and a shammy's is not.. I would say druidpet wins against a sham pet. Both enchanter and shaman pets seem more like emergency countermeasures more than anything. Any time I ever soloed my shaman dot+root was always far more effective than bothering to heal up the pet + take the time to buff him with a million things etc.
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My pet rarely dies at 58 and I haven't had a new pet in several levels (get the last one at 62 I think). Regardless, my point was that based on "importance" of the pet, druid is lower because they get only ONE pet. Ever. And enchanter pets were basically there in the event that they have nothing to charm. That's all I was saying.
 
Ahh I getcha, though I don't think its even possible to have nothing to charm, except on the last mob. Though was there not an aa that makes the chanter pet pretty useful? Guarding animation or something like that.

But then again back on point, I'm still looking at doing some parses once my schedule calms down and to get some parses from guildies playing other classes so maybe by the end of next week we'll get to see some....wait for it.

50 Minute Logs!
 
Just going to spit this one out here: I rolled my magician on SoD, as I had a handful of necromancers on live, because I wanted to try a class that I had thought was more-so focused on their PETS.

As a magician, instead of being a necromancer, I wanted to be able to tank with my pet and support it with good nukes and pet heals. I can barely do either: my pet heals have a long recast, are on the same recast, and the majority of mobs will eat through my pet too quickly- as shown from my post above, and my nukes have a heavy agro repercussion, even with our level 64, heavy mana & short duration, pet agro spell, and my single level 55 dot which is great but it has a 7 second casting time!

Magician pets are not great DPS, and they are not great tanks. Whoever suggested pets needed a nerf really should have provided some data, imho, to these forums because as a 65 ranger and a 65 mage, I really feel that my pet SHOULD be out tanking my ranger!

Please give my pet some tanking ability and additional DPS- I really do not want to retire him as a buff bot, but I understand they are an easy target for a nerf bat.

And please consider doing the opposite of what the S-word company had done for years: taking away from the game instead of adding to it, in situations of balancing.
 
SoDPlayer said:
And please consider doing the opposite of what the S-word company had done for years: taking away from the game instead of adding to it, in situations of balancing.
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I don't know why you even thought to write this. You must have forgotten every other balancing tweak in SoD history. urthermore, you can not simply ADD to 15 classes to make the 16th balanced in every case, it's simply stupid.
 
iaeolan said:
I don't know why you even thought to write this. You must have forgotten every other balancing tweak in SoD history. urthermore, you can not simply ADD to 15 classes to make the 16th balanced in every case, it's simply stupid.
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Did you even read my entire post, or simply select parts? Your post adds nothing to this thread, and I would bet you do not even play a pet class.
 
Nothing is simple about balancing- if I somehow implied otherwise than I apologize to the offended. There has been enough trolling and bickering in this thread; I would like to see more opinions on the original topic.

I am speaking of magicians only here:

From what I have heard from parsing magicians, level 63 pets are ~40dps & the relic pet is ~90dps. Does anyone have some data on this? If magician pets were not meant to tank than that is one thing, however, currently none of my four level 63 summoned pets can tank well enough for me to heal them (on an orc in EW, as a proven example) while the magician nukes are another topic altogether.
 
SoDPlayer said:
Whoever suggested pets needed a nerf really should have provided some data, imho, to these forums because as a 65 ranger and a 65 mage, I really feel that my pet SHOULD be out tanking my ranger!
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What kind of pet are you referring to? An earth pet i understand, but fire pets are pure DPS, and in all reality what is only a portion of your char should not outperform the entirety of another char
 
Diodimus said:
What kind of pet are you referring to? An earth pet i understand, but fire pets are pure DPS, and in all reality what is only a portion of your char should not outperform the entirety of another char
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Fire pets have a self damage shield- that tells me they were intended to tank too. From levels below 63, I would use a fire pet and it tanked well enough.

Wiz said:
Pets should not outtank players because they are expendable.
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Fair enough.

Non-pet classes aside:

Are pets meant to tank at all? If not, I would think their DPS would be higher. If so, I think they need a boost post-50 or at the very least 63+.
 
SoDPlayer said:
Fire pets have a self damage shield- that tells me they were intended to tank too. From levels below 63, I would use a fire pet and it tanked well enough.
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Rangers have thier own Damage shields, and they really arent ment to tank at all after 60.
 
This thread is about pets, Diodimus.

Edit: Please do not take that too harshly, Diodimus- I am trying to get something said and/or done about pets. My level 65 magician's level 63 summoned pets seem weak to me, as shown in the data from my first post in this thread, which has yet to receive a comment.
 
Sorry man, im just trying to point out that you seem upset that your pet isnt as powerful as having a second character. Atleast thats how i'm reading it. I apologize if im wrong.
 
This 65 ranger has repeatedly tanked Inner Prison dragons and is a more than adequate tank for any exp zone in the game. So, my 65 mage's relic pet should be able to solo NDHK named?

I noticed a moderate boost in my pet's dps when I switched from the 63 fire/air combo that I normally used to the relic pet, but it was not OMG! ginormous. The biggest change I noticed was in the HP's (this was more important when pets did NOT receive hp boosts from buffs). By the time you get the relic pet, you should also have pet foci out the wazoo. These are what noticably improve pet performance.

BTW, ranger/mage is a horrible 2box combo :( At 60+, it takes pretty damn good gear to melee mobs even with the pet and mage assisting and bow kiting is very difficult as the pet will nearly always pull aggro when the mob gets low hp and starts moving more slowly (even with taunt off). This combo can't duo anything together that they can't solo individually. They work decently well together in a group setting, but they still suffer somewhat due to the ranger being a twitch class (requires constant attention) when bowing.

http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=brandar my ranger
http://shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=garluk my mage
 
I am not upset that a pet is not as powerful as a second character; if I am upset at anything, it is that at level 65, my magician's pet can no longer tank well enough for me to keep it alive with my pet heals. Wiz did a great job testing low-mid level magician pets and bringing that data to the table. This data lacked a level 63 pet test, so I brought it to the table.

I would bet that an equal warrior, monk, or rogue would not be able to solo some of the stuff that I have soloed with my mage, but this is an issue that has a lot to do with gear dependancy, lack of melee-class' abilities, although stances help, and is unfortunately the way classes are hard-coded.

Garluk: I like the ranger/magician combo- I would earth pet, archery & jolt my way through. If I wanted to kite, I would have made another necromancer. :dance:
 
Oh and a preliminary test against a plaguewracked spider...whom my actual mage can tank pretty well w/aego...

Defender of Sihala: Ancient: burnout blaze, relic ds, 2 daggers of symbols, Til's intervening enchantment, bauble of battle, compstr 4, comphealth 5.

Pet soloed it 43% health remaining on pet. Keep in mind its a lblue mob. Keep in mind the spider is also taking 43 each time it hits the pet. It's also got 80% haste...from the burnout in addition to a massive strbuff etc.. Of course we're also talking the best "tanking" pet. I think relic ds did more damage than the pet actually did tbh, but I'm not at my home comp. Of course one test does not an experiment make.

Also I'm not sure where this pet being as powerful as a second character is coming from. It's not. Also with 60 days of playing a mage with the "bug" on in the first place I can certainly attest that it wasn't like one in the first place. I couldn't solo whites (which I've heard ppl bitching that mages could before, not in this thread mind you), hell I couldnt even solo most blues. I couldn't solo emerald maw, which I've seen duoed, couldnt solo mermaids in elds, which I've also seen duoed. Couldn't solo most things in ww, could solo kloie's adds (1 at a time) with it being pretty close. Couldn't solo harthuk lords, etc. The latter things might I add I've seen necros and wizzies solo. Are wizards supposed to be better at soloing than mages now?

Though mostly in light of the recent changes I'd like to know what exactly the reasons are for maining a mage at all. Because I'm not seeing any. Neither have any of the other mages that I've talked to so far.

Soloing? Not anymore, want that? play a necro. You'll be better dps, and have cc util too.

Summons searfire etc?? Use a bot. They stay around til you log anyways. But oh noes dots are expendable??! use reagent conservation and summon 5 stacks. They'll last. Apart from searfire and dots, I havent been asked for any of the other summons in probably about the the last 20 days of playtime which is probably around 4 months ago.

Modrods...see above.

DS? Even relic ds gets overwritten by the druid one. 40 resist fire...handy but no need for it most of the time if you've got the druid one handy

Pet? Rather than a class focus it now seems more of a oh neat..thing. Something we get 4 seperate lines of (not counting monster summoning) over the course of 65 levels seems like it should be a main focus of the class to me.

DPS? Necro's and wizzies => better dps. Why? Well in the case of wizzies.. ub, pb, the billion crit aa's etc etc. Necros have alot of dps in the case of dots as well, which can also crit, as well as debuff. Once the parser gets written I'm pretty sure that necros are going to blow mages faaar out of the water as far as dps goes. Also 2 lines of nukes, fire and magic. That's pretty much it.

Pets are expendable, to a point. However it's useful to remember that generally if the pet dies. The mage isnt far behind. The mage also..is not expendable. Not to mention at higher levels with the recast time on things like bop and sop, and pet dying far far more often than he used to nerfs the usefulness of the aforementioned as well (more so with soloing that with grouping.)

Did I miss one? anywhere? Don't think I did.
 
I'm still planning to evaluate and probably tweak high level pets.

It's just more complex than mid level tests.
 
Wiz said:
I'm still planning to evaluate and probably tweak high level pets.

It's just more complex than mid level tests.
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awesome, you just made my day :D. I'm still trying to make sense of the parser as I'm not very familiar with it yet, so anything testing from my end will be a bit in coming, that and my schedule is a bit harsh atm. Starting 2 jobs at once entails a bit more paperwork and adjustment than I had originally anticipated. Hopefully I'll have monday-wednesday off to run a pretty decent amount of data.
 
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