peerless golden earring - may have peers?

Manguadi

Manguadi

Dalayan Beginner
Bards are listed on the DPS reward for Kelia Tolborn's Antiques. I find this hilarious. While it totally suits the bard in my guild (he always runs over when wolf is called, it's so cute), it doesn't seem like much to either add some stats that might make a bard want it even a little, or just giving bards the tank reward instead.

If it were changed to suit bards better, I'd recommend adding 15 or 20 cha, as bards need cha a great deal, and it's pretty meh for the other classes on the earring.
 
Spiritplx said:
The earring has 3% crit strike. How is that not good for melee DPS classes?
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Bards are a melee dps class (even though we are lower than most, but on par with beastlords). 3% crit strike for bards is very appealing and I do not see why this item should have anything else added to it. If you don't like crit strike as a bard, then I would suggest skipping this quest (even though this earring is really good for the difficulty to obtain it).

As a side note since it has been brought up recently. Adding charisma to already established gear is NOT the way to go. If you are a bard or another hybrid seeking charisma, there are items out there for you to go after. Simply adding stats to items is nice for players, but it is terrible for itemization. Choose your gear wisely.
 
If you need more charisma on your items, you can always just add some augments to boost it up some.

If you don't need it bad enough to augment it, then you probably don't need it tha bad.

The earring is pretty badass, as is with 8ac and 80hps/mana.
 
Spiritplx said:
Bards are a melee dps class (even though we are lower than most, but on par with beastlords).
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No. No. No. No. NO.

Bards are casting DPS. Their total (casting + melee) dps is on par with beastlords*. Of that total, approximately 30% comes from melee dps. So: 60% casting DPS, 30% melee dps. (The melee portion will be ~ 100-120 DPS for a thaz geared bard with no tomes). I don't know about the rest of y'all but I've never considered 120 dps on a player to be anywhere near "melee dps class" worthy. At that point, every 1% crit strike addition adds LESS THAN 1 dps. Oh boy howdy, now I'm 121 dps! Watch out Thazeran, here I come!! The reason many bards consider the class to be "dps class" is because asides from getting 1-2 items with instrument mods, they can't do a single thing to increase spell dps output: so they either gravitate towards dps gear to increase their nominal melee dps slightly, or they gravitate towards tankey gear to increase their nominal tanking ability slightly. This is the source of the "BARDS R A DPS CLASS" claim (as well as the "BARDS R GRATE TANKS" claim) when the truth is that "bards are great utility" and have always been intended as a utility class.

I'm frankly quite disappointed in the lack of charisma effect on songs and spells - it might just be me but it seems a little broken. I can see how raid mobs with a capped resist rate can hit their "rock bottom" with malise/etc. but I'd prefer to see the effects of malies/etc. capped at a slightly higher number and the effects of charisma go the rest of the way. But that's a topic for another day.

Moving along to the tmap quest: I see no reason to change the reward for bards to make it just as useful for them as for every other class (see: every other thread recently posted on the topic of making same tier items identical or perfectly equally useful for every class). Variety is the spice of life! If you don't like it, you can save yourself a lot of time and money and energy pursuing some other item to put in that slot: particularly with high end droppables from several end game grouping areas.


*I wouldn't readily admit that if I were you: it's a quick way to get nerfed.
 
Allielyn said:
Words words more words
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The earing is pretty awsome for hybrids. Bards are hybrids and 3% critt strike is nice way to bost your cs%.

This post is about the earing cha and bards NOT about who to play a bard or what they are.
 
Allielyn said:
No. No. No. No. NO.

Bards are casting DPS. Their total (casting + melee) dps is on par with beastlords*. Of that total, approximately 30% comes from melee dps. So: 60% casting DPS, 30% melee dps. (The melee portion will be ~ 100-120 DPS for a thaz geared bard with no tomes). I don't know about the rest of y'all but I've never considered 120 dps on a player to be anywhere near "melee dps class" worthy. At that point, every 1% crit strike addition adds LESS THAN 1 dps. Oh boy howdy, now I'm 121 dps! Watch out Thazeran, here I come!! The reason many bards consider the class to be "dps class" is because asides from getting 1-2 items with instrument mods, they can't do a single thing to increase spell dps output: so they either gravitate towards dps gear to increase their nominal melee dps slightly, or they gravitate towards tankey gear to increase their nominal tanking ability slightly. This is the source of the "BARDS R A DPS CLASS" claim (as well as the "BARDS R GRATE TANKS" claim) when the truth is that "bards are great utility" and have always been intended as a utility class.

I'm frankly quite disappointed in the lack of charisma effect on songs and spells - it might just be me but it seems a little broken. I can see how raid mobs with a capped resist rate can hit their "rock bottom" with malise/etc. but I'd prefer to see the effects of malies/etc. capped at a slightly higher number and the effects of charisma go the rest of the way. But that's a topic for another day.

Moving along to the tmap quest: I see no reason to change the reward for bards to make it just as useful for them as for every other class (see: every other thread recently posted on the topic of making same tier items identical or perfectly equally useful for every class). Variety is the spice of life! If you don't like it, you can save yourself a lot of time and money and energy pursuing some other item to put in that slot: particularly with high end droppables from several end game grouping areas.


*I wouldn't readily admit that if I were you: it's a quick way to get nerfed.
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The point I was trying to make is that crit strike does indeed help bard dps. Even though you don't seem to think it matters much doesn't mean that as bards we can't max out the melee dps that we can do.

Even though attack and crit strike don't translate to as much dps as they would for a ranger/rogue/monk, does not mean that it does not proportionately affect the dps of a bard's melee dps.

Yeah, this is kind of getting off topic, but is still on topic to a certain degree since my argument for leaving the earring as is, is the fact that crit stike DOES help bards.
 
Ok, people keep replying before I can finish my carefully crafted and witty retorts, and I'm tired of rewriting stuff.

Frankly, Allielyn got everything right including the only counter-argument worth acknowledging, that if it's not worth if for bards, they can seek out other items and variety is the spice of life. However, these items were clearly designed to be useful for everyone (there are 4 of them for goodness sake). Of all the items, the earring has the largest disparity in usefulness. I suspect that it was given 3 crit strike specifically so if would be somewhat useful for bards and beastlords who utilize the crit strike less, and this has led many to call it the best reward of all three.

My point is essentially that the item design should be in line with the goal of being useful for everyone, and that there are stats that could be added to this item that would make it useful for bards without improving it's relative usefulness to the other classes by any large amount.

I still think the best solution is to give bards the tank reward, since that's what they usually get anyway.

edit: added the word only
 
Spiritplx said:
The point I was trying to make is that crit strike does indeed help bard dps. Even though you don't seem to think it matters much doesn't mean that as bards we can't max out the melee dps that we can do.

Even though attack and crit strike don't translate to as much dps as they would for a ranger/rogue/monk, does not mean that it does not proportionately affect the dps of a bard's melee dps.

Yeah, this is kind of getting off topic, but is still on topic to a certain degree since my argument for leaving the earring as is, is the fact that crit stike DOES help bards.
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You say Allielyn doesn't "seem" to think it matters much when she provides specific numbers to support her point. You can't possibly believe that a point of DPS can be considered help. It helps in the same picking up a penny from the street makes me richer.
 
If you wanna trade a range item with 15 ac +10 sta agi 125 hps 50 mana +3%agroo vs your 1.3 all instrument Starfall2 item that boosts ALL your songs then GG. ( since if you can get the tmap quest reward then you can do the sf2 quests also).
 
Latten said:
If you wanna trade a range item with 15 ac +10 sta agi 125 hps 50 mana +3%agroo vs your 1.3 all instrument Starfall2 item that boosts ALL your songs then GG. ( since if you can get the tmap quest reward then you can do the sf2 quests also).
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At what point, then, do you replace the starfall 2 item?
 
Manguadi said:
You say Allielyn doesn't "seem" to think it matters much when she provides specific numbers to support her point. You can't possibly believe that a point of DPS can be considered help. It helps in the same picking up a penny from the street makes me richer.
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This game is all about minor upgrades and small numbers. Every dps more I do I consider to be pretty good. Having a few points of crit stike will always be better than some overcap charisma. The way this game is set up, there is little variation to dps between tiers. So yes, I will keep saving my pennies if it makes my character better.
 
Manguadi said:
At what point, then, do you replace the starfall 2 item?
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at the point you get the Djinni sword 1.6 all insturment , the Hunter of souls blade 1.8 from HoM, Puppet from IP 1.8 all modifier . Powater cloak 2.0 singing , PoN ? wrist that felyn once had was it 1.6 or 1.8 all instrument. Cod Sword 1.7 all instrument.
 
All instrument mods do not affect singing. You're basically saying that instrument mods are the best statistic a bard can have no matter the quantity. Also, these two items are so disparate in their uses that you'd swap them out situationally.
 
Manguadi said:
All instrument mods do not affect singing. You're basically saying that instrument mods are the best statistic a bard can have no matter the quantity. Also, these two items are so disparate in their uses that you'd swap them out situationally.
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Im quoteing this cause i havent found a better self burn in ages.
 
Back to core : yeah you don't want the tank reward as a bard, realize this.

About the earring , would it really unbalance to add like 5 or 10 CHA so that it gets more useful for everyone ? All these rewards are really meant to be awesome : the wis reward has HI 6 which is what a healer wants, the int reward has FT2 dzomg, the tank reward aggression agi AC HP etc is what a tank would want, the earring has crit strike 3 ok but couldn't it get everything a hybrid would dream of (in small quantity) ?
 
I'm wondering what the upgrade to this ear is I honestly can't think of much but I think the other upgrade i've seen is amazing
 
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