Patch Notes - June 12th, 2020

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
I agree with this. I personally would prefer the current effort going towards putting in more buffs instead be put towards removing longterm buffs.
I also agree with this. As long as buffs are long duration, immune to dispel, and persistent through death they will never be interesting. Even "short" duration buffs like cunning and savagery are uninteresting.
 

Swight

Dalayan Adventurer
Any buff with the ability to restore HP/mana should probably retain casting time and costs or they may be exploited. but other that that don't see a ton of reason for buffs to cost/or have cast time.
 

Quelian

Dalayan Adventurer
Any buff with the ability to restore HP/mana should probably retain casting time and costs or they may be exploited. but other that that don't see a ton of reason for buffs to cost/or have cast time.
I agree that's a reason for cost and mana, but the other option is to put them on a relatively long cooldown and turn them into emergency heals for no mana.
 

Ranmere

Dalayan Adventurer
Lowbie Paladin self-heal Blessing of Light could use a look -- was talking with a lowbie pal wondering why his self-heal healed for half of what light healing does.
 

sabuti

Dalayan Elder
Hopefully a lot of these changes get reverted someday. A lot of the "fixes" are just removal of fun IMO. I don't know anyone who's going to come back to play their characters in a worse, weaker state and go back to spending 30 minutes to buff themselves. Hopefully it works out for you guys but I really just don't see the audience this is trying to target.
 

Paxit

Dalayan Elder
Please take this dagger out of my back whoever decided to go this route without a complete rework of buffs in place and ready to go. Your killing me and us ! On behalf of my guild and Probably a good majority of the sod community this is a plea to reinstate kind lady untill this is ready to go. In some form or w/e like hell idk put her near thurg bounty npc's and have her charge bounty tokens or some other option beside spawning her via a stream in some obscure zone sometimes.
 

Gargate

Dalayan Elder
Please take this dagger out of my back whoever decided to go this route without a complete rework of buffs in place and ready to go. Your killing me and us ! On behalf of my guild and Probably a good majority of the sod community this is a plea to reinstate kind lady untill this is ready to go. In some form or w/e like hell idk put her near thurg bounty npc's and have her charge bounty tokens or some other option beside spawning her via a stream in some obscure zone sometimes.
You should be used to half finished content by now. For me thats basically the ranger class in a nut shell so Im fairly used to it. Several devs starting reworks then quiting before they're done leaving it a hodgepodge. Tons of other examples in game.

And from what Ive been seeing in other games as of late its becoming standard across the industry. Half finished content left for long periods of time.

In all the years I don't think they've managed to piss off so many players at once. My hats off to them.
 

totw

Dalayan Adventurer
cognitive dissonance.
You should be used to half finished content by now. For me thats basically the ranger class in a nut shell so Im fairly used to it. Several devs starting reworks then quiting before they're done leaving it a hodgepodge. Tons of other examples in game.

And from what Ive been seeing in other games as of late its becoming standard across the industry. Half finished content left for long periods of time.

In all the years I don't think they've managed to piss off so many players at once. My hats off to them.
this. even if a kind lady returns i would still need to really consider if it's worth it to invest my time on a server where awful changes are closer to intentional than a mistake.

to the staff: please play the actual game. if you can't, at the very least, form your ideas into user/player stories and see if they make sense. i will provide an example using a legitimate system that currently exists in game:

as a player, i want to stream for two hours in order to have a staff member spawn "a kind lady" in an unknown location. then, i want to play where's waldo to buff my characters.

next, ask yourself if that sounds like something the majority of your player-base would ask for. if not, don't implement it.

if you're consistently wrong, then consider resigning. or, continue to run your server into the ground. you own it.
 
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Elysium

Dalayan Adventurer
Man, I just want to play some SoD 1.0... the game looks indistinguishable to me compared to what it was a few years ago. Will that ever be a possibility? Does a server backup and source code still exist from back then?

I'm interested to hear how the ownership of the server has changed hands over the years.
 

Ek03

Dalayan Beginner
Thank you for addressing the newb quests/newb adepts. I roll/reroll hardcore characters because its hard to find any groups at 65 and it was annoying that I would have to farm adepts for a day or two rather than playing the game in a more organic way. It was even worse advising new players to do the same.
 

donfolstar3

Dalayan Master
Just dropping my head in out of curiosity how SoD is developing.

It sure was nice to see a front page and this post just loaded with all kinds of wonderful polish. Normalizing spelling, changing spell names to make some kind of in world sense, etc... is ten+ years overdue, so kudos to whoever is taking the time to care. I wish more game devs cared enough to polish, but halfassed seems to be the modern industry mantra.

Very cool to see low level content revisited. Now if you could implement some kind of shrouding/down leveling system so leveling isn't so lonely. Or have you?

Trying to fix buffs, eh? Long duration buffs and lots of exclusive class buffs are bad game design. It's swell to see that at least half of the problem you inherited is being addressed. Hopefully this buff fix keeps heading toward an end to in city buffing and buffers having more in group value.
 
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Faylahs

Dalayan Elder
RIP warriors. Glad i stopped playing Crynel cause now i'd just be sad playing her now.
RIP a.o.e weapons (maybe?). God forbid we get exp at a decent rate when people have 60+ tomes to do.
spell changes are at least decent i think.
In any case im curious how things play out. I dont play anymore but someday the itch may come back.
 

odizzido2

Dalayan Elder
Maybe I am out of touch but warriors still seem like the best tanks, at least in terms of actually tanking damage. I don't feel like they need to RIP yet.
 

Revnan

Dalayan Beginner
Just dropping my head in out of curiosity how SoD is developing.

It sure was nice to see a front page and this post just loaded with all kinds of wonderful polish. Normalizing spelling, changing spell names to make some kind of in world sense, etc... is ten+ years overdue, so kudos to whoever is taking the time to care. I wish more game devs cared enough to polish, but halfassed seems to be the modern industry mantra.

Very cool to see low level content revisited. Now if you could implement some kind of shrouding/down leveling system so leveling isn't so lonely. Or have you?

Trying to fix buffs, eh? Long duration buffs and lots of exclusive class buffs are bad game design. It's swell to see that at least half of the problem you inherited is being addressed. Hopefully this buff fix keeps heading toward an end to in city buffing and buffers having more in group value.
I second these remarks. I do not mean to pick on anyone, but complaining about how things were, without considering how things could and should be is regressive, just try the new stuff! They need to test the changes, so try them out and help make the server better. They are actively developing, and issues that arise should be pointed out constructively. That you MUST have certain buffs to play, is junk. That a characters entire purpose for existing is to log, buff and log, is junk. Alchemy really does take the sting off, and if you want certain buffs bring pots! I can already tell you having played my buffer chars (enc and sha) that the changes are amazing for actually playing those chars. I felt more like an enchanter, I felt more like a shaman while playing. I wasn't flipping pages every 5 mins and doing spell gems. I was involved in the events taking place around me. EQ is a group based game, not a bot based game at it's heart, even if it stumbled over there at some point. I don't know, I know this thread is a little older now, but tell me what you think.
 

Fields/Balty

Dalayan Beginner
I second these remarks. I do not mean to pick on anyone, but complaining about how things were, without considering how things could and should be is regressive, just try the new stuff! They need to test the changes, so try them out and help make the server better. They are actively developing, and issues that arise should be pointed out constructively. That you MUST have certain buffs to play, is junk. That a characters entire purpose for existing is to log, buff and log, is junk. Alchemy really does take the sting off, and if you want certain buffs bring pots! I can already tell you having played my buffer chars (enc and sha) that the changes are amazing for actually playing those chars. I felt more like an enchanter, I felt more like a shaman while playing. I wasn't flipping pages every 5 mins and doing spell gems. I was involved in the events taking place around me. EQ is a group based game, not a bot based game at it's heart, even if it stumbled over there at some point. I don't know, I know this thread is a little older now, but tell me what you think.
Lots of people tried it and don't like it. We even got half the active server to sign a petition saying it was crap. We got ignored par for the course. It creates a weird imbalance that doesn't need to be in the game. Simplest solution to the buff problem was the Kind Lady. Fixed the buff bot problem and fixed the buff problem. The major concern for people and this has become true that everything outside of raids will take longer. Having a war/dru combo I can say this is true. Mainly from the warrior side of the duo. If I was a Paladin not only would I hate myself but I'd have better self buffs. SKs even get some nifty self buffs. During the golden time with the KL it was log in get buffs go about my business. Then things started down a weird path with buffs until we reached this point. KL fixed the problem of characters existing to just buff.

Your comments about actually playing your class don't make sense to me. I don't think I've ever grouped with an enc/sha that was flipping through pages every 5mins but each persons experience is different. With the longer buffs/KL you could spend 9hrs(at 65) just playing ur class not worrying about swapping your pages/gems for buffs so idk maybe I'm missing something from your post.

I do agree they are developing but many wonder why this change? The communication isn't very clear and they wanna keep everything secret(at least some). We don't have a clear defined goal here just "the vision". Many would also like to see dev time put into new content and perhaps fixing some of the time sinks already in the game. Which I believe some of the MQ was fixed so good on that part. Buff changes don't really create more player engagement like a new raid or quest zone. Perhaps if we knew said vision it would make sense but right now we're just fumbling along until that new shards server gets released.
 

odizzido2

Dalayan Elder
Shards has always been unnecessarily secretive and it reduces my enjoyment of the game some. I really don't understand why they won't release how things work. What exactly does stamina do? Is 30 stamina worth 30AC? Who knows.

If you look at a game like EVE online they release all the info. You have the exact hit probability formula so you can make good decisions. The game hasn't fallen apart because people know what's going on.
 

Nwaij

Dalayan Pious Diety
THE most annoying part of this change is the constant need to rebuff people after they had accidents. Feels like I'm casting GoE/JB after every other pull on raids now, which is not enjoyable.
@jumbers If you want to have buffs work like auras, please go the full length and code something like 3 aura slots a caster can fill that act as permanently active buffs on anyone in his group/raid, automatically (re)applying themselves when joining the team/zone. Constant rebuffing of people in a raid is no fun.
 

iBluNT

Dalayan Elder
I second these remarks. I do not mean to pick on anyone, but complaining about how things were, without considering how things could and should be is regressive, just try the new stuff! They need to test the changes, so try them out and help make the server better. They are actively developing, and issues that arise should be pointed out constructively. That you MUST have certain buffs to play, is junk. That a characters entire purpose for existing is to log, buff and log, is junk. Alchemy really does take the sting off, and if you want certain buffs bring pots! I can already tell you having played my buffer chars (enc and sha) that the changes are amazing for actually playing those chars. I felt more like an enchanter, I felt more like a shaman while playing. I wasn't flipping pages every 5 mins and doing spell gems. I was involved in the events taking place around me. EQ is a group based game, not a bot based game at it's heart, even if it stumbled over there at some point. I don't know, I know this thread is a little older now, but tell me what you think.
You've gotta understand that most of these players on this game have been playing for 5-15 years. It's deeper than just being upset about a patch.

TLDR: Player base has been dwindling forever. Any QoL changes that we've asked for have been put in, then removed and then some. Server promotion is non-existent. Catch up mechanics for new players have yet to be seen (some recently). Staff couldn't be more non-transparent. But 8 years after 2.5 released, LET'S CHANGE EVERQUEST'S CORE BUFF STRUCTURE IT'S ALL IN THE WORKS!

Full thoughts:
Buffs in general are a shitty mechanic to any game, but it's been the fundamental of Everquest forever. Most vanilla-based progression servers still hold on to the core buffs that don't have nearly the duration that Shards did, but they're still in every emulated server. I think most of the outrage about this patch was that there are so many other issues and things that needed rework, that as players of 10-15 years, it's depressing to see that this much time and work was devoted to something that didn't need changing over some of the other issues.

Kind Lady was added and the server rejoiced, literally the most positive I've seen the player base in years. But then somehow we managed to not only revert Kind Lady, but go in the completely extreme opposite direction. All the while, this was never really ever given much notice. It's been hinted at in the past, but for the most part the active developing that goes on in this game is 95% caged and unknown to the player base. This has always really been the ruination of this server. Thoughts are rarely listened to, there's generally been a pretty stringent rule mentality, and staff has always been reappearing bi-yearly at best and implementing these crazy changes that nobody asked for.

The way we EXP is unlike most other EQEmus in the fact that we build these mass-AoE groups and pull entire zones just to rinse and repeat. EXP zones should be more like raid zones, where a group is going in to actually do challenging content and not bash our skulls in Kaesora or FR just to fill bars. There's dozens of unused raid zones from about tiers 1-6 that could've been reworked to utilize this. Perhaps with the AoE weapon nerf, maybe this is in the forecast but who knows. Not to mention we were on a record of engaging new content being pumped out by a few devs who eventually got the boot because of being blocked from releasing anything else.

I had mentioned in a previous post that got deleted by staff, which is creating such a toxic environment in itself, that there was such little work needed to get buffs into a permanently good situation, that is now eclipsed by all of the work needed to make this "vision" viable in the population and environment we find the server in now. All of this work could've been focused into so many different existing lanes, but now will be consumed by cleaning up this mess and making all of the dependent mechanics work around it. We can beat around the bush all we want, but in order for this change to work it's very apparent that you either need a population big enough to find EXP groups on a whim, or just raid log. A population that big hasn't been around since pre-2.5. People used to get excited for patches, but lately it's felt like a nightmare every time patch notes get released.
 
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Revnan

Dalayan Beginner
Those points are well taken. Thank you for taking the time to explain to me. I admit groups are rare, but I tend to prefer breadth to overwhelming power (being able to buff, heal and damage, even if each is not top tier). And buffs that don't need nearly as much rebuffing and that incentivize my chars inclusion have been nice. Maybe there's a better to accomplish it and I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I can only see through my own eyes and experiences
 
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