I know this has been talked about at least briefly recently, but I thought I'd make a topic specifically about it. If you feel like I'm beating a dead horse, well... when I'm bored at work, everyone loses =P
First off, let me say that this thread is about paladin utility, not any other class. If you have an issue with a different class's role in raids, please feel free to make a thread about it. I'd prefer to avoid derails here.
The basis of this thread is simple: Paladins are fairly useless on raids.
Their primary group role, tanking, is unfulfilled because warriors make far, far better MTs, while SKs make better secondary tanks. The paladin's specialty, AE aggro, is useless on raids, unless you're clearing trash that's essentially trivial to you. If you're doing stuff at a tier that will be beneficial to you, grabbing AE aggro on a pull that's too big for the warrior and the SK to handle is just going to get you killed quick-like. A paladin is the last choice for an off-tank. Even as an aux tank or rampage tank, using an equally well geared monk or possibly even bard will generally not be a big enough loss of tanking ability to be problematic.
Paladins were also given increased DPS, which is nice, but our primary role is still tanking. That's reflected in our DPS: it's above that of a SK or a warrior, but it's inferior to all DPS classes, melee, ranged, and caster alike. A paladin is one of the last choices for DPS.
Paladins have heals. Their direct heals are reasonably strong, around 1500hp or so with some good healing increment (the remedy is crap). It's a slow cast, though, and even with AAs pallies don't get much in the way of crits. The range is also fairly short. Paladins also get their group HoTs, which are slightly more useful. They can't come close to keeping up with rampage or WWs from mobs past the first couple of tiers, though, and most AOEs are either trivialized by a bard or strong enough that the HoT isn't going to make that much of a difference. That said, there ARE a few fights where having a paladin spam HoTs on his group is pretty useful (fire boss in UT, for instance). In the situations where this is necessary, it MIGHT be true that a paladin is the ideal class based on the combination of DPS and heals. I'm not sure how we compare to, say, an extra druid, who can bring some fairly good nukes, some mediocre dots, and much heftier group heals to bear (as well as providing far superior additional healing for the MT/ST should the need arise).
Paladins also get one good buff: the pink heart. 300hp, only conflicts with the BST atk buff. This is pretty important for raids. It also lasts like 3 hours with duration increment, so if you have SB, the raid gets the entire benefit from one cast. A paladin is pretty useful as a buffbot if he's got SB.
The paladin raid breakdown:
Inferior tank
Inferior DPS
Situationally useful heals, but inferior healing most of the time
Useful but limited buffer
The end result is that there's no reason, ever, to have more than one paladin on a raid, and unless you're shooting for the loot boost from raid diversity, there's not much need for even one, if you can get an SB pink heart. I know one high end guild usually just logs a paladin bot at zonein in Thaz, then brings him for fire boss, only to log him again. I get the impression that that's not uncommon.
Basically, Paladins don't seem to have a role in raids. If you've got a spare slot, or have all the other classes represented, they can be handy to have along. They don't fit into the ideal raid force, though (again, excepting the diversity bonus). Aside from SSS, there's no particular benefit or combination of benefits that paladins offer that can't be better provided in the large majority of situations by another class.
First off, let me say that this thread is about paladin utility, not any other class. If you have an issue with a different class's role in raids, please feel free to make a thread about it. I'd prefer to avoid derails here.
The basis of this thread is simple: Paladins are fairly useless on raids.
Their primary group role, tanking, is unfulfilled because warriors make far, far better MTs, while SKs make better secondary tanks. The paladin's specialty, AE aggro, is useless on raids, unless you're clearing trash that's essentially trivial to you. If you're doing stuff at a tier that will be beneficial to you, grabbing AE aggro on a pull that's too big for the warrior and the SK to handle is just going to get you killed quick-like. A paladin is the last choice for an off-tank. Even as an aux tank or rampage tank, using an equally well geared monk or possibly even bard will generally not be a big enough loss of tanking ability to be problematic.
Paladins were also given increased DPS, which is nice, but our primary role is still tanking. That's reflected in our DPS: it's above that of a SK or a warrior, but it's inferior to all DPS classes, melee, ranged, and caster alike. A paladin is one of the last choices for DPS.
Paladins have heals. Their direct heals are reasonably strong, around 1500hp or so with some good healing increment (the remedy is crap). It's a slow cast, though, and even with AAs pallies don't get much in the way of crits. The range is also fairly short. Paladins also get their group HoTs, which are slightly more useful. They can't come close to keeping up with rampage or WWs from mobs past the first couple of tiers, though, and most AOEs are either trivialized by a bard or strong enough that the HoT isn't going to make that much of a difference. That said, there ARE a few fights where having a paladin spam HoTs on his group is pretty useful (fire boss in UT, for instance). In the situations where this is necessary, it MIGHT be true that a paladin is the ideal class based on the combination of DPS and heals. I'm not sure how we compare to, say, an extra druid, who can bring some fairly good nukes, some mediocre dots, and much heftier group heals to bear (as well as providing far superior additional healing for the MT/ST should the need arise).
Paladins also get one good buff: the pink heart. 300hp, only conflicts with the BST atk buff. This is pretty important for raids. It also lasts like 3 hours with duration increment, so if you have SB, the raid gets the entire benefit from one cast. A paladin is pretty useful as a buffbot if he's got SB.
The paladin raid breakdown:
Inferior tank
Inferior DPS
Situationally useful heals, but inferior healing most of the time
Useful but limited buffer
The end result is that there's no reason, ever, to have more than one paladin on a raid, and unless you're shooting for the loot boost from raid diversity, there's not much need for even one, if you can get an SB pink heart. I know one high end guild usually just logs a paladin bot at zonein in Thaz, then brings him for fire boss, only to log him again. I get the impression that that's not uncommon.
Basically, Paladins don't seem to have a role in raids. If you've got a spare slot, or have all the other classes represented, they can be handy to have along. They don't fit into the ideal raid force, though (again, excepting the diversity bonus). Aside from SSS, there's no particular benefit or combination of benefits that paladins offer that can't be better provided in the large majority of situations by another class.
