non-combat regen

Derekj54

Derekj54

Dalayan Beginner
I think an increased regen while not in combat similar to how eq2 and wow have would be nice when you cant find groups, i think them games its kinda too fast but, it doesnt really make you more powerful just able to fight again faster, but then people might want to group less. i think it woiuld be wonderful though.
 
well...

You can bind wound to 70% here, and 100% with 3 aas.

And you can buy a medkit, which puts 400 bandages in two slots for 6pp.

There is your fast regen.
 
If he's wanting the regen system to be like EQ2, that would include mana regen too. Faster mana regen when not in "combat mode" would be nice.
 
Re: Hrmm.

Anadin said:
mana regen is pretty sick as it is...
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That's because you're a shaman. Why doesn't anyone believe me when I say shaman mana regen is unbalanced?
 
Well, also, shaman's can't really sit down too much in fights. In groups I cast slow and debuffs and unless its a kick ass tank I can't sit for a while, screwing me out of alot of mana regen. So I don't think its that unbalanced. For sure a little though.
 
Shaman mana regen...

I didn't say it wasn't unbalanced. I said that mana regen is pretty good, overall. I play a cleric fairly often as well.

On the issue of shaman mana regen... I agree it's unbalanced if you have aego and JB, or even KEI. Then again, I don't have canni5 yet.
 
I think you should implement a quest to upgrade canni worms. They are immature, at first, so let me make them mature (canni 2). Then let me incubate the larvae and turn them into immature worms (canni 3) ... then let me raise him (like a tamagotchi!) and make him a mature worm! See, easy solution!

Also, make this a Rabb-only quest.
 
Shaman mana regen is unbalanced only because it caps out so fast. (level 60 roughly with torpor.) As you progress, slowing becomes the first priority for groups (not healing). One cant always control how many adds you get, so mana on demand is needed to slow. I have played Taws in some groups where I had to chain cast mend wounds. Mana regen doesnt matter in that situation because I cant pause for 2.5 seconds to canni or the tank dies. For any shaman 60+ Kei, Chorus, or +FT items have a very minor impact. Compare a 15 FT from item cleric, to a 15 FT item shaman to get the idea. It just lets the shaman relax a bit and not canni so much but doesnt change their power level signifigantly. For low level xp grind content, shaman are kings. But for high end encounters even Druids out perform shaman for healing. Shaman have such weak spell power (and bad mana/ratios as well), that it doesnt matter if they have FT 100.
 
Re: Shaman mana regen...

Anadin said:
I didn't say it wasn't unbalanced. I said that mana regen is pretty good, overall. I play a cleric fairly often as well.

On the issue of shaman mana regen... I agree it's unbalanced if you have aego and JB, or even KEI. Then again, I don't have canni5 yet.
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Yah. Canni would be fine in itself, but JB really throws it out of wack.
 
Ponden said:
Shaman mana regen is unbalanced only because it caps out so fast. (level 60 roughly with torpor.) As you progress, slowing becomes the first priority for groups (not healing). One cant always control how many adds you get, so mana on demand is needed to slow. I have played Taws in some groups where I had to chain cast mend wounds. Mana regen doesnt matter in that situation because I cant pause for 2.5 seconds to canni or the tank dies. For any shaman 60+ Kei, Chorus, or +FT items have a very minor impact. Compare a 15 FT from item cleric, to a 15 FT item shaman to get the idea. It just lets the shaman relax a bit and not canni so much but doesnt change their power level signifigantly. For low level xp grind content, shaman are kings. But for high end encounters even Druids out perform shaman for healing. Shaman have such weak spell power (and bad mana/ratios as well), that it doesnt matter if they have FT 100.
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Really now. Torpor is a bad ratio for healing? That's news. Also mend wounds has no worse ratio than Revitalize, and only marginally than Blissful Light.

I find your other argument interesting as well. A shaman spamming canni IV, adding torpor time, gets roughly two cannis a second, or 160 mana per tick. So what you're saying is that their mana regen is balanced against a medding cleric (around 30 mana/tick) because it's so huge that FT items don't increase it much? :?

A cleric with JB and FT15 will get ~60mana. A shaman will get ~190. The gap doesn't change just because shamans are way higher on the scale than everyone else, so percentage point increase is irrelevant.

Shaman mana regen is absurd. Even a relic necro will not come up to half of a shaman's mana regen. Are you seriously saying shamans deserve four times the mana regen of all classes other than necros, and twice theirs? Do their spells suck THAT much?

I wouldn't mind a shaman having this mana regen power outside of combat, since that is one of the major things that makes the class desired, but these torpor + canni endless mana fights created by the fact that shamans regen mana just as well in as outside combat have got to stop. Any suggestions, feel free to pitch them.
 
Slumber is not really a combat heal and has its own set of issues as a Slow duration heal, meaning for high DPS mobs its basically worthless. Mend wounds I was comparing to Complete Heal, and Words of Completition, Not to the lesser efficency heals of druids and clerics.

For mana per tic, Its not really fair to count Canni at full value. Yes, in theory a shaman could get around 160 mana per tic. But if you really play a shaman it doesnt work out to be that large. (if you are fighting alot of mobs every cast you make takes away from your potential mana regen, This is not the case for necro lich.)

What I was trying to say about a cleric with FT and a shaman with FT, was that as a healer, the efficency and use of Complete Heal (the amount healed per second), and the naturally low mana regen clerics have, makes FT 15 much more powerful on a cleric. No shaman will be healing a main tank on a raid simply because they have this Theoretical 160 FT.

"Do their spells suck THAT much?" When I was leveling up my druid, I was lucky enough to have Relic: Jayala's Boon cast on me. (back when it didnt have a level req.) You might think that 18 FT at level 30 would be completely unbalanced, but it didnt make you immortal. The spells themselves sucked in such a way that the casting time limited their use.

In the case with Mend Wounds and Slumber, go ahead and take a shaman to catacombs or cmal3 and try and be a main healer. It wont work no matter how much you punch canni4/5. Shaman and necro dots need a complete revision probably, so that shaman do not displace necros as damage over time masters. But, the 2 classes shouldnt be compared at all. Shamans need to be balanced against the other 2 priests. Is shaman mana regen displacing clerics? Is it displacing druids? In some situations I would say shaman DO displace druids, But not every. The harder the content you go for, the more Heals per second matter, and less how much FT you can conjure up.

""four times the mana regen of all classes""
The average CH in groups I am in is about 5k, for 455 mana. For a shaman to heal the same with Mend wounds (In combat not counting Slumber) -- It would take roughly 3.5 casts of Mend wounds (with no healing inc). 455 mana VS 1050 Mana.

(JB/KEI, is a enchanter enhancement. Having Kei not stack with Lich Hurts Enchanters, not Necros, same situation here. )

Shaman are too powerful at level 60 in a normal xp/equiped group. But not too powerful at 65 with a raid equiped group.
 
Ponden said:
Slumber is not really a combat heal and has its own set of issues as a Slow duration heal, meaning for high DPS mobs its basically worthless. Mend wounds I was comparing to Complete Heal, and Words of Completition, Not to the lesser efficency heals of druids and clerics.
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So why do I see torpor/slumber used all the time in combat, whenever the tank can hold aggro anyways?

For mana per tic, Its not really fair to count Canni at full value. Yes, in theory a shaman could get around 160 mana per tic. But if you really play a shaman it doesnt work out to be that large. (if you are fighting alot of mobs every cast you make takes away from your potential mana regen, This is not the case for necro lich.)
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I already counted away a fourth from casting and torpor from my number.

What I was trying to say about a cleric with FT and a shaman with FT, was that as a healer, the efficency and use of Complete Heal (the amount healed per second), and the naturally low mana regen clerics have, makes FT 15 much more powerful on a cleric. No shaman will be healing a main tank on a raid simply because they have this Theoretical 160 FT.
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That's not even relevant to the point nor the issue with shamans.

"Do their spells suck THAT much?" When I was leveling up my druid, I was lucky enough to have Relic: Jayala's Boon cast on me. (back when it didnt have a level req.) You might think that 18 FT at level 30 would be completely unbalanced, but it didnt make you immortal. The spells themselves sucked in such a way that the casting time limited their use.
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An anectodal example from being level 30 long ago with a druid adds exactly what to this discussion?

In the case with Mend Wounds and Slumber, go ahead and take a shaman to catacombs or cmal3 and try and be a main healer. It wont work no matter how much you punch canni4/5. Shaman and necro dots need a complete revision probably, so that shaman do not displace necros as damage over time masters. But, the 2 classes shouldnt be compared at all. Shamans need to be balanced against the other 2 priests. Is shaman mana regen displacing clerics? Is it displacing druids? In some situations I would say shaman DO displace druids, But not every. The harder the content you go for, the more Heals per second matter, and less how much FT you can conjure up.
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I'm not worried about class balance with shaman mana regen mainly. I'm worried about player vs monster balance. It's hard to tune encounters against limitless mana healers.

And yes, they displace druids. All the time.

""four times the mana regen of all classes""
The average CH in groups I am in is about 5k, for 455 mana. For a shaman to heal the same with Mend wounds (In combat not counting Slumber) -- It would take roughly 3.5 casts of Mend wounds (with no healing inc). 455 mana VS 1050 Mana.
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Only if you have no AAs and healing increment. And it still doesn't even out.

(JB/KEI, is a enchanter enhancement. Having Kei not stack with Lich Hurts Enchanters, not Necros, same situation here. )

Shaman are too powerful at level 60 in a normal xp/equiped group. But not too powerful at 65 with a raid equiped group.
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Compared to other classes, shrug. Still think they are to some extent.

Compared to mobs, yes they are.
 
Wiz said:
I'm not worried about class balance with shaman mana regen mainly. I'm worried about player vs monster balance. It's hard to tune encounters against limitless mana healers.
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Oh. :roll:
 
Ponden said:
Wiz said:
I'm not worried about class balance with shaman mana regen mainly. I'm worried about player vs monster balance. It's hard to tune encounters against limitless mana healers.
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Oh. :roll:
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A valuable contribution.
 
slumber tanking is only when you absolutely need the extra healing of say a elixer of bliss because your hps/mana ratio is the worst of the priest class. Shms do have insane mana regen at the cost of the loss of meditating back mana. As a druid you can get a much better handle on the heal situation than a shaman, and as a cleric even better by having large heals for relative mana with the addition of high FT/mana regen spells while fighting mobs that allow time to meditate. There is a barrier between the shm and CH priests. As a shm I cannot heal mobs like PoT tower mobs or misery basement. A druid or cleric of similar level and gear could easily. What I can do is regen my mana back at a faster rate by actively canni between heals and last alot longer on low dps mobs. All you would need is to add druid ch to shm , slow to druids, or canni to clerics to make the other 2 obsolete. As of right now I believe they are in balance. Not every class is best in every situation, shms will never be raid healers, druids will never be slowers, and clerics will never have the fastest mana regen. No amount of gear or aa's will change this, they will on the other hand widen the barrier between which is wanted for which application. I will take a shm healer along with me unless I have a slower, than its my druidbot. On raids I cannot have enough clerics.
 
I'd be willing to give shamans better heals in exchange for a nerf to their combat mana regen.

So is it the only issue?
 
i can only see one solution to shamans mana reg vs necro manareg and that is to up necros ;P

/kiss
 
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