no drop loot

[shebearcub]

Seeing as the other thread got way off track, without an answer I thought I would try again. I spoke to Wiz in irc as some of the 2.0 changes were going on about no drop items being restricted to group/raid.

At that point the answer was, raid stalking doesn't seem to be a problem anymore so no drop items were going to be able to be looted by anyone regardless of group or raid.

Is it still a possiblity to change loot policy so that no drop items can be looted freely, or has that idea been scratched off for some reason since I heard anything about it last?

 

[purefyre]

As it was sugguested before, it should be the raiding guild's responsiblity to delete any drops rotting. If any alts of their is on the way to loot anything it should be made known to those in the zone that the item(s) are hands off. Any violator then should be reported and punished and the item(s) reimbursed to the rightful owner(s).

 

[Zhak]

Would be cool to see 'open-looting' implemented.. tmaps were the majority of the reason this change was put in I believe.

 

[Luthien]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but wasn't there a way in Live for the raid leader to select a certain number of people and give them loot rights / add them to the loot list? It would be good to be able to make a list of say, everyone on the raid and their tag-a-longs, for loot rights, but anyone not on the list wouldn't be able to loot a thing, thus rendering raid stalking useless. Is this a possibility?

 

[Jun]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but wasn't there a way in Live for the raid leader to select a certain number of people and give them loot rights / add them to the loot list? It would be good to be able to make a list of say, everyone on the raid and their tag-a-longs, for loot rights, but anyone not on the list wouldn't be able to loot a thing, thus rendering raid stalking useless. Is this a possibility?

If youre gonna go to that trouble, it would make more sense to just up the raid cap and leave the engage cap at 18.

 

[vistachiri]

Would be cool to see 'open-looting' implemented.. tmaps were the majority of the reason this change was put in I believe.

pretty much that was the reason I saw given at least during the whole discussion.

Though I'd love to see it happen especially single class loots, as those always seem to be a problem, i mean hell I could have outfitted half my guild w/cmal gloves that night. Abscond coth ftw.

 

[Cinn]

Personally, I would like the loot rules to stay the same as they are now.

There is no reason in my mind why the staff would want to encourage people having bots follow the raid along and just gear themselves up painlessly and without effort.

From a progression standpoint, I cant see how this is the route the developers planned for characters to follow, wether they are alts or not.

You should not be able to gear a character effortlessly.

 

[Mythryn]

You should not be able to gear a character effortlessly.

The players also shouldn't have to put effort into getting loot that will just rot because they have to farm a mob for certain items that don't drop often enough. (insert dumb 'everything is random, it's just bad luck' arguement here, when it's always the horrible items that drop more than the good ones)

Why should 18 characters have to go through 4+ hours of raiding for loot that's just going to rot? We should be able to come out with something, even if it's just gear for our alts.

 

[Wiz]

The players also shouldn't have to put effort into getting loot that will just rot because they have to farm a mob for certain items that don't drop often enough. (insert dumb 'everything is random, it's just bad luck' arguement here, when it's always the horrible items that drop more than the good ones)

Why should 18 characters have to go through 4+ hours of raiding for loot that's just going to rot? We should be able to come out with something, even if it's just gear for our alts.

This is a bad argument because it encourages bottomfeeding instead of moving on after you've mostly finished a raid zone though.

The answer to this thread is that I still haven't decided what to do with loot rules.

 

[Jun]

This is a bad argument because it encourages bottomfeeding instead of moving on after you've mostly finished a raid zone though.

The answer to this thread is that I still haven't decided what to do with loot rules.

In Steel's case and I'm sure in other guilds cases, with spawn timers as short as they are now, we simply do not have the time to visit zones that are a tier below us since there is always something up on our tier to do. This includes basically three zones (Lower Thaz, IP and CoD), and we have only really been in Thaz once. That is on a 5 raids a week schedule. I just don't see raid guilds regressing for alts or something of the like due to the quickness of targets on their own tier. The only problem I could see would be Forsaken possibly gearing alts once theyve cleared UT, but I dont see it so much as a problem since they will have nowhere else to go and shouldnt have to stagnate.

 

[Nurgock]

Personally, I would like the loot rules to stay the same as they are now.

I agree since it will simply allow raid guilds, especially those in the upper tiers of the raid game, to gear an innumerable amount of their alts. Twinking is already common enough and easily acheivable with todays tradeskill and droppable loot system.

 

[antihelei]

what is the problem if people level up their alts and get them good gear? i dont see why this is so hated, they put in all the work and they are in a guild that can kill stuff, why not let them?

 

[Nurgock]

I dont think it was ever intended that a level 1 cleric would be walking around with an Otherworldly Emerald Diadem (random and extreme example).  I think it was intended that separate characters, for the most part, would experience the world separately and each earn their own equipment.

 

[Temellin]

Just to offer a bit of a different view point on this. Raid stalking is down, in my opinion, because they cant get loot by doing it any more, and if its made so that people can loot outside of raid/group then raid stalking would just pick back up again.

Just my 2cp

 

[volvov2]

Just to offer a bit of a different view point on this. Raid stalking is down, in my opinion, because they cant get loot by doing it any more, and if its made so that people can loot outside of raid/group then raid stalking would just pick back up again.

Just my 2cp

As it was sugguested before, it should be the raiding guild's responsiblity to delete any drops rotting. If any alts of their is on the way to loot anything it should be made known to those in the zone that the item(s) are hands off. Any violator then should be reported and punished and the item(s) reimbursed to the rightful owner(s).

Ruin does its best to make sure if something could rot, we have a bot/alt in the raid to loot it. The only thing the removal of the loot rules would do, would make it less of a hassle. (and its not that big of a hassle, just requires some pre-engage shuffling.)

 

[vistachiri]

tbh I see the argument about a level one toon walking around in a full pimp suit. Yeah granted that shouldnt happen. Of course the lev req prolly kills that anyways. But jic I'd like to clarify the loot rules we're talking about.
1) No drop cant be looted if you werent in the group/raid that killed it
2) 10 level (or is it 20?) difference

I was pretty sure we were talking specifically in reference to #1, not #2. Thus even 1 taken out, a 69 raidmob would not be able to be looted by a level 1 or 30 or what have you.

 

[Mythryn]

This is a bad argument because it encourages bottomfeeding instead of moving on after you've mostly finished a raid zone though.

The answer to this thread is that I still haven't decided what to do with loot rules.

It's hard not to bottomfeed when all you need are the select few 'rare/good' items from a select few mobs and there is no other content available.

 

[vistachiri]

This is a bad argument because it encourages bottomfeeding instead of moving on after you've mostly finished a raid zone though.

The answer to this thread is that I still haven't decided what to do with loot rules.

Starting new characters does essentially the same thing anyways. Something like an oh I just got this toon to 65, hrm I need this rare drop. I would think that having things be lootable outside of group/raid would actually help to alleviate things somewhat. Say for instance there is a rare singleclass drop, Rather than have that item rot, and having to go back and hit that mob many many more times after that guild has advanced in content, someone loads up whoever needed it and couldnt make the raid or whatever, they get it, and walla, their guild is done with that place and doesn't have to go back and bottomfeed. At least it makes sense to me.

 

[Allielyn]

The argument that raiding guilds will go farm lower tier zones just to gear up alts on a regular basis just doesn't hold water . . pulling 18 people around for 5 hours of raiding just to gear up a couple of twinks will not happen often because guilds won't abide it for long. Raiding is something that's time consuming and difficult: guilds do it because they want to get something out of it for their mains. I can almost guaruntee that as soon as a guild starts consistently raiding content below them to gear up several alts, then that guild will see poorer raid attendance progressing to stagnation. Unfortunately, the current system, as it stands, forces guilds to bottom feed (and by bottom feed I mean raid in zones they're well overgeared for) if they want to gear up alts and/or mains.

Since most guilds like to raid at the edge of their capabilities, there is often not room for an alt or two to come along for loot, particularly with the 18 cap rules where you're looking at specific class setups for raids. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, this enforces bottom feeding. In addition, since guilds can not consistently bottom feed without losing guild interest, the system as it stands also enforces the use of bots, since it's more difficult to gear up alts that could be DC'd instead of using the current giuld-bot, who is already geared for the level.

There are, of course, challenges that arise from allowing free looting of rotting corpses. Raid stalking, for one, tended to contribute greatly to the deflation of the economy: Why would you pay for XXX item when every 30 minutes there's an /ooc Very Difficult Tmap Item XXX rotting in EBL, first come first serve! In addition, it is ridiculous to see level 40 characters running around with nDHK Throne Room loot. Some people contend that the 'alt' players don't deserve the loot they're getting, they didn't fight to get it, etc.

It's not an easy problem to solve. I, personally, would like to see out of group/raid looting allowed again. Several changes would limit the problems inherent in free raid looting:

1) Slap on a level req. cap to loot (something like within 10 levels, or even for some zones, level 65 required to loot) to prevent the problem of twinking lowbies with raid gear.

2) Slap on a lev. req. to wear: while recommended levels worked great with droppable gear for the economy, req. levels will effectively restrict raid items to raid level toons. It may be impossible, but putting an AA requirement might also be a good idea.

3) Make raid loot sellable to a vendor that can't sell it back to the populace (Like Eldrich and Ancient spell scrolls). Since what is defined as "raid loot" tends to change over the course of time as people gain levels and mudflation takes its course, this is a fair and economical way of rewarding that the people who raid and have outgrown their gear. This will also ensure that nothing will "rot" and/or be left for raid stalkers.


Just a few ideas to help solve the problems inherent with the system as raid-loot-only and the problems inherent with free-reign-looting.

Allie

 

[Jinxat]

I support out of group/raid looting. Ruin may do our best to make sure that we have someone in raid, but it slows us down alot, and can take up to roughly 30-45 minutes of raid shifting over the course of the night depending on how many mobs we kill and where we are raiding. Its a huge inconveniance and is completely unnecessary anymore. Raid stalking isnt a problem anymore, and there have been many other suggestions here which seem logical (IE: sellable vendor loot, req. level 65). As many have said due to the current system bottom feeding is inevitable (especially for the guilds which have little to no content left -- forsaken). I know that in Ruin we dont feel the need to rush to upper thaz since well, when you get there, at the moment SoD has nothing left to offer but bottom feeding. However, as many other people have said, bottom feeding will not occur simply to gear alts unless the guild has nothing else to kill to progress (again forsaken is a perfect example of this, but pretty much only them).