My thoughts on the 3/22 patch...

[SprintFun]

First off let me say that I understand the reasoning behind getting people away from one city (Newport) and trying to get the to use the other places in the game. However, I think this was done more crudely than had to be. Erudin/Odus is playing a larger and larger part in the game with the addition of spell turn ins in Erimal (and the possibility of Kunark where Bancak was or was that to include Bancak in the expansion?); but they completely get the shaft when it comes to getting there without a porter. I haven't done it yet but I'm willing to bet that getting to Erudin from the Everfrost TLer takes atleast 20 minutes without a sow...in a game where you can get a quarter of a level in 20 minutes if you're a lowbie how does one think that 20 minutes of travel is worth it? With the new reliance on porters to get where you want easily, it doesn't make much of an impact on the prime time players but the people who play during the day get the shaft once again (like when vendors went away it became tough to purchase things from other players).

The second point of the patch I'd like to bring up is the /cmd listsold "commands." This system is not nearly user-friendly enough that an average person will use it when selling one or two things when /auction is so much faster and reaches everybody. Also, it is very important to note that now with cities being further runs, are people really going to use it as intended? I highly doubt it...before one could get from almost anywhere to Newport in 5 minutes to pick up an item. However now with people scattered all over and no real easy access to a bank unless bound at one are people really going to want to waste 20 minutes running to a bank to buy an item and then run back?

As stated earlier the goal of this was to wean the dependency on Newport; but wont Athica just beome the new Newport? Since it is the only city you can port to (one way I know) wont that mean that people who need to quickly get to a bank to make a transaction will probably just head there? Also, any newbies who unknowingly take the portal and get put there might jsut be inclined to stay there since it won't be very easy to get back without a porter's assistance (and it will happen...there were people logging in at 1AM asking where the TLers went).

I have a few suggestions to help with people staying in thier home area. For example, give characters a penalty for exping outside of their "home" area while they're under a certain level. For example a dark elf killing in BB would get a -25% Old Area type penalty. Another thing that would help stimulate the use of one's home city would be an easy newbie gate item quest usable only to the races of that city. With bansk becoming much more central in the new "trading" system this would be an immense help to keep the flow of the player market moving. Also, I think a portal is needed in Odus...maybe in shrouded isles? Or maybe make it a one way portal that one could port to but not out of to atleast help save some time for anybody who wishes to travel to Odus.

As for the /cmd listsold things, I really don't know how to help this system. To be honest I think this is a system that isn't widely accepted by the public and cant see the new changes helping it win the hearts of players. The biggest thing I can suggest to make it more user-friendly is eliminate the need to be at a banker to do /cmd listsold on people. Am I going to zone to a bank just to /cmd listsold Wiz cuz he says he has sweet stuff for sale? No, but if I'm bored while EXPing I probably would just to be curious if nothing else. By tanking the banker out of this step it would free the system up to everybody on the server.

Well, that's all I have for now...bear with my rantings and please atleast read my suggestions. If you have soemthing to contribute, go for it - but please don't reply with "OMG I USE THE /CMD LISTSOLD SYSTEM DAILY AND KNOW LIKE 5 PEOPLE WHO DO TOO." And also, if you disagree with me go ahead and say so but please list your thoughts behind your logic. Have a good one.

 

[diolas]

Wiz has been trying to decentralize the server since it started. Unfortunately, people like to congregate and there's no easy solution to 'force' people to stay in their hometowns. The end result is usually that the current focal point is moved to another location.

I like, somewhat, the new trade system. There are several flaws, of which you pointed out a few. There are two ways to go with it. Either make it more user friendly, such as not needing a banker to use it. The other option is to make it more automated, such as not needing to stay online to sell items and to have all the items automated and listed via the bankers. Using the shared portion of the bank is probably ideal for this use.

 

[Trellium]

For myself, I have simply never seen enough true newbies to require they be separated. I found that you had to travel to get to have any chance at all of grouping, and that the teleporters were already a substantial barrier. As a true newbie, generating 2pp can be a chore, let alone doing for the return trip.

I still think the best solution is for everyone to start in a more common area, such as Newport/Surefall/Halas/Erudin. Those areas are relatively easy and safe to move between (assuming the boats work). That provides a wide scope of races and classes to play with. Compare that to Underhill, which has no druids, shaman, bards, beastlords, nor rangers anywhere on the continent. Its a melee & silk caster heavy area that really doesn't work out well, there is not much balance to select from let alone population of low level players. There is no tracking, no movement buffs of any sort, and ports limited to wizards.

Also, there weren't any silk caster armor quests in Underhill before the patch. If it wasn't added, that means that only the melee classes had quests. Your alternatives for finding level appropriate armor in Fayder continent is very limited compared to Warrens.

 

[calaran]

Yeah, at first the new system made me think "Cool, when my friends and I all roll newbs of different races and classes, we can all get together without spending the 2pp now", since we don't have it unless we twink which we're not high enough to do. But, then I realized that basically now each newb would have to beg a druid or wizard to help them go around and get all the things to port with... and even then, they can't port to the cities where their friends are.

I am not really complaining per say... I understand wanting everything to spread out... but as I said in a post about the Underhill/Steamfont problem before... maybe the answer is making those areas more attractive rather than just forcing players to stay there. If you want to destroy the grouping spirit, make it nigh impossible for 2-3 friends who come to the server for the first time to group together because one wants to be a dwarf cleric, one an iksar warrior and one a erudite wizard... I would have to believe that without the help of druids/wizards (which I'm guessing brand new players probably don't know a whole lot of them) who decide to spend all their time porting people for 0pp since newbs have none, that these friends would either have to play completely separately now... or would have to try to make their way on foot and boat which in many cases requires going through some very dangerous zones full of aggro mobs...

Thematically I don't like the idea of it, but maybe trying to make all the newbie zones attractive in their own way (exp bonus, close to the center of the world, less aggro roamers, close to the good low level dungeons, etc)... and then giving players a chance to choose which place they start... I know that ruins some of the theme and I agree that I don't like that... but that would allow a group of friends to all start in the same place, but if all the starting zones were equally nice (or at least close) you would see a more even distribution of players, I'd have to believe. Heck, if all my friends and I could have started in Underhill, we probably would have... just 'cause we enjoyed Steamfont on Live so much, and there's a decent low/mid level dungeon (fearstone) right there... But I ended up hating starting out in Underhill, 'cause the trek anywhere else was horrendous... since i knew no one and had no plat.

I think with a small population, forcing a spread-out is going to hurt grouping and interaction rather than spread people out to fighting in other zones. Want more people in Fearstone? Maybe some better gear drops (at least better than what's in the wiki), less fear/harm touching... a 3-man well-balanced group in Fearstone at lower levels will do nothing.. 'cause healer gets feared, group wipes. I really TRIED to level in places that other people don't go... but they go there for a reason. I managed to circumvent BB completely... but the warrens.. easy to crawl, good camp, great for drops at that level (I guess we started ~10, up through ~18) if untwinked... mobs are really easy to split, rewards are good... even with overcrowding and bad bonus, it's much better than wiping 10x in Fearstone and for your trouble getting basically nothing off the one decent mob you dropped.

I hope changes like this DO help spread out the population, and I hope it DOESN'T damage what little grouping game existed in the low-end already... But I just can't imagine coming to SoD as a complete newb now with several friends, rolling up toons, and realizing there is NO way that we'll end up together that evening... and likely not until we all grind some levels out in our various starting areas... Had that happened, we would have all rolled humans just to start in Newport. And if different classes started different places, prolly would have changed what classes we were playing just to start together so we could have some grouping fun. I think changes like this will just force people to choose certain race/class combinations more frequently than before... So, I'm betting if Athica becomes the new Newport, then we'll see a lotta little people rolling in... I could be (and most likely am) totally wrong, and I hope I am.

It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

 

[Trellium]

I also think its unfair to place a single newbie dungeon on the continent, and then make it "fear disabled" for player characters (even though fear is a level 4 spell, would be handy to learn to use it), NPCs there fear you often though, and half of the races who start there have a 25% fear specific penalty for resists (gnomes).

On top of that, the Fear implementation has no work around. You are frozen, can't type, can't move, can't cast, can't gate, can't help, and can't get gear that helps you with it. Compare that to other similar level dungeons in which you might get poisoned or diseased, but have the chance to recover or be healed or to run or to gate ...

Its a lot like being mezzed for 30 seconds except if you are mezzed and something hits you, you recover and can react. Fear lets them beat you with NO release of the Fear spell except to time out.

It also lasts a long time too. Its not just one tick, its 30 seconds of complete incapacitation. Why isn't it just 6 seconds? That in itself is a HUGE detriment. It really doesn't need to be 5 times that length.

 

[calaran]

Well, as far as fear not being player-enabled in the zones.. the reason for that is having to design custom pathing for all the mobs in all the zones where fear neesd to work. But I do find it interesting that players can be feared in those zones and just get a long duration non-breakable mez, and mobs when feared in those zones ... well, you get a message saying you can't do it... maybe the players' fear spell should do to mobs in those zones what mobs' fear does to players... heh

 

[desolute]

I enjoy the pre 20 part of the game, i have many many many characters who are under 20 just collecting dust. But bieng this kind of player, it allowed me to really feel out the pre20 game (which is the only part of the game that is really honestly effected by the removal of TL).

Lets see how the old system worked.

Bob rolls a Gnome, if bobs lucky he will find one person roaming steamfont but most likely he will find no one. Luckily bob can port his ass to NP and find himself an influx of groups to enjoy the game with.

Lets see how the new system works.

Bob rolls a Gnome, if bobs lucky he will find one person roaming steamfont but most likely he will find no one. Luckily bob can run his ass to Athica and find himself an influx of groups to enjoy the game with.

 

[SprintFun]

Please try to keep this post on topic and not about how much gnomes suck

Good point about newbies to the server who want to group together...didn't think of it from that perspective

 

[Birlic]

Trellium: Actually, you can type while feared. You can even make a "I'm feared" key if you fight in Fearstone and it happens too often.
I think the fear effect in SoD is far superior to what happened in EQ when you were feared (running through the zone and gathering trains). The problem is that in zones like Fearstone too many NPCs cast fear and too often it is their weapon of choice. Coupled with the way resists work in SoD, it can make that zone annoying.

It's hard to predict the impact of a big change as yesterday's patch. I'm sure they did not intend any negative effect on Dalaya (on the economy and/or travelling) and, if that happens, it will be fixed in time.
The new trading system has some advantages over the old one and it seems an easier base for future add-ons like the "browse by item/slot/class" that some people wish for.
I like the new travelling system better but I agree that Erimal should be made more accessible. Three of the better 10-30 zones are around there.

 

[Trellium]

Gnomes don't actually suck, unless they are forced to remain in their own homeland area. This is a new issue caused by the portal changes, and general direction of limiting lower level players options for travel. Its a direct and immediate consequnce of the changes made in yesterdays patch, and the "work around" of going to Warrens or Blackburrow isn't nearly as viable today as it was before the patch.

Gnomes were workable before, but now its much harder.

And whats funny, is I have NEVER been able to type while feared. My keyboard doesnt accept keystrokes, but I havent tried a hotbutton.

 

[Wiz]

Is every single person here missing that Centaur Hills/Blackburrow are massively overcrowded and the only reason that places like Underhill are empty is that everyone leaves Underhill because Underhill is empty? If people didn't vacate Underhill right away there'd be enough people around to group with.

 

[SprintFun]

Is every single person here missing that Centaur Hills/Blackburrow are massively overcrowded and the only reason that places like Underhill are empty is that everyone leaves Underhill because Underhill is empty? If people didn't vacate Underhill right away there'd be enough people around to group with.

I don't know wiz, it'd be interesting to see the racial population of the server. I think there are too many starting cities personally, and this whole thing is spreading it all too thin. However, that's another topic than what this one is intended to be about (the portals and money system).

 

[Trellium]

Bob rolls a Gnome, if bobs lucky he will find one person roaming steamfont but most likely he will find no one. Luckily bob can run his ass to Athica and find himself an influx of groups to enjoy the game with.

I would like to believe this, but I can't. Before, we had TWO teleporters to Fayder and one of those was directly to Underhill. Yet, you found no one then, and hope more will come when the portals are further away. I don't think its more likely people will come to Steamfont to hunt when its more zones to get there.

Also, it may be easier for other classes to come, but its not more compelling to do so. If they leave, they can jsut use their portal shard from where they came from. The default portal for gnomes and dwarves is essentially right were they started. Why not give them a free portal shard to Halas, or something to be more balancing between races?

For a gnome or dwarf to use the portal system it requires huge amounts of travel to all other areas, all requiring boats, and boats not exactly working properly (unles sthat was fixed, but I didnt see a patch note for it). If thats the case, then getting a port out is really the only fix.

 

[Zalman]

For a gnome or dwarf to use the portal system it requires huge amounts of travel to all other areas, all requiring boats, and boats not exactly working properly (unles sthat was fixed, but I didnt see a patch note for it). If thats the case, then getting a port out is really the only fix.

You could change gnome or dwarf in that statement to just about any other race. If you notice, each starting city has a portal near it but getting to the other portals requires extensive travel.

If a dwarf or gnome really, REALLY wants to go to Newport, they can just hop on the boats (don't go AFK) and ride to Newport (layover in Freeport).

If anyone should be complaining it's taldorians (frogloks), but even then, they have a very short trip from Sundered Mountains to Freeport (go through the sewers) to hop a boat to Newport (again, don't go AFK). The trip from Oasis to Freeport is much more dangerous than the trip from Steamfont to Freeport but it is in no way impossible to make that run if you keep your eyes open and avoid the mob camps.

So yeah, boohoo, I have to walk ten minutes and ride a ship for twenty minutes to get to Newport so I can stuff myself into BB and Centuar Hills.

 

[Trellium]

Is every single person here missing that Centaur Hills/Blackburrow are massively overcrowded and the only reason that places like Underhill are empty is that everyone leaves Underhill because Underhill is empty? If people didn't vacate Underhill right away there'd be enough people around to group with.

People vacating Underhill/Steamfont was never because of the translocators. I strongly prefer Steamfont and Fearstone, but I have always felt pushed out by the game design itself.

Not having silk armor quests available meant I went to Warrens, since soft leather is pretty decent for the level. Far superior to silk and pixie silk (which drops less oten it seems, and has fewer spawns, and has a long respawn time compared to Warrens).

Fearstone is avoided since Blackburrow and Warrens mobs dont fear. Thats how it was for me anyway ... and I liked Fearstone very much except the Fear was a deal breaker ... for my two gnomes. I don't believe I had ever resisted a fear spell in there until I was about level 20. Thats not an issue in Warrens nor Blackburrow. It felt like dungeon time was far more productive in useable drops, exp, and meeting people.

Making Fearstone a more friendly place to go is what solves the problem. Having soft leather drop there would help a lot, or drops for silk quest armor.

Having quality quests in Underhill similar in nature to Newport Ring 1. **WHY** wouldn't people leave Underhill to do Newport quests? They seem more abundant, and fun to do. I did them, and I liked Dalaya because of it. I got to explore, yet it cost me valuable plat to use the translocators. I couldn't EVEr be frivolous about them, I couldn't pop out to Newport, and back without a major hit to my cash flow.

So, you stay where you can do the most, meet people, group up, and have fun. I don't think much of that applies to the Underhill area, and I don't think forcing people to stay there will do anything but make them avoide the races who begin there.

I am also afraid that new quests will be put in to the Underhill area that assume you can group with a tracker ... when none of druid/ranger/bard start on that continent. There are holes in the way that continent works under Dalaya, like not having any healer except cleric start there (well, Paladin too once they get a heal spell).

So, isolation forced on that group has an unabalancing effect and I have little hope that reduced travel opportunity will resolve the issues.

The easiest fix for people who want to start characters to hunt together is to do so in an area where most classes are available. Thats Erudin/Newport/Surefall/Halas. In Underhill your classes exclude druids, shaman, bards, rangers, and beastlords. Thats a fairly big hit to take on grouping structure, buffs available, run speed, and debuffs.

 

[diolas]

I rolled up a couple new toons recently. Bluckburrow and centaur hills weren't especially overcrowded. There was plenty of room to xp for anyone who went. The downside is that blackburrow usually means death due to the number of adds you have to deal with if you're not grouped.

I tried a few of the other dungeons as well. Fearstone is far too dangerous with the fears. Shrouded has bigger problems than BB for adds (inside the mansion). Warrens was really the only good experience I had for those lowly levels. Usually a group to be had and the xp/coin was decent for the level. Mielech A was pretty decent as well if you could find a group. Otherwise, forget it. I'm sure other people had other experiences elsewhere, I'm just merely noting that I did not find overcrowding an issue for any of these dungeons. This was during peak times as well.

When you're sitting in a low populated area, trying to find a 'compatible' group is like pulling teeth from the server. With the new changes, the low levels can't even really /ooc lfg. Now take the 2 hour travel time into consideration and you're better off just logging off and trying again later. Or gritting your teeth and hope you don't die too much soloing.

Is this a negative look at things? Perhaps. Using a level 10 character and looking for a group in 'supposedly' overcrowded areas, I didn't exactly get a group instantaneously every time I logged in. Sometimes I had to travel and with the translocator's close at hand this wasn't a huge issue for places like Mielech or Fearstone.

 

[desolute]

This really only effects pre 15 or so life, because if you really wanted to go somehwere (just like live) you could hoof it. And since Butcherblock paths are now safer its far easier to boat your way to NP if you really must from Steamfont/Athica. But the problem is, the change put in kinda hinders player interaction anymore. Not alot of people roll Gnomes/Dwarfs in comparison to say...Humans, Half Elfs, Barbarians, Most DE classes...heck alot of stuff spawns in NP. So your left with the few odds and ends for Athica region. Which leaves you with nill or close to none.

Overcrowding was never a problem with my characters, most of the time i would level to 10 in thier hometown, then from 11 on would hit BB and NBL (bandits = hawt), then about 13ish i would hit warrens, which slowly turns into First Ruins and from thier sky is zee limit.

Oh well, /rant off.

It would be an interesting thing to build what spawns where kind of list.... (ie: DE Clerics = Newport) ?

 

[Bruttal]

Welp in my opinon since it was still rather easy to solo with the help of a "Med kit" i didt mind blackburrow was overcaped i was able to find things that were still blue in Centur hills and leave my lfg up while am doing that and if a group need me am sure thay would holler for me. however i also dont think that removeing the TL was completly nesasary with exception to bring it more into the Lore of SoD. Things will be harder but if thats how he wants sod then thats how we shall play reguardless

 

[Trellium]

If anyone should be complaining it's taldorians (frogloks), but even then, they have a very short trip from Sundered Mountains to Freeport (go through the sewers) to hop a boat to Newport (again, don't go AFK). The trip from Oasis to Freeport is much more dangerous than the trip from Steamfont to Freeport but it is in no way impossible to make that run if you keep your eyes open and avoid the mob camps.

So yeah, boohoo, I have to walk ten minutes and ride a ship for twenty minutes to get to Newport so I can stuff myself into BB and Centuar Hills.

But, you see I think the boats would be fine ... if they worked. So far, I failed 6 times trying to get to Freeport from Newport due to be dumped from the boats, and I am level 35. The Freeport dock was still bugged last time I was there, and I couldn't reboard the boat. I was stuck in a little groove, and when I tried to board the boat I fell in the water, to be consumed by sharks.

The boats between Goblinskull, Freeport and Newport take a long time to come around again if you get dumped. The boats go through large zones. Its not a fast trip at all, and its not interesting, and its not challenging (except the game bugs of course).

Thats the point though ... none of this addresses the expressed desire to have newbies more diversified over dungeons. We had a system in which porting was pretty easy overall. If Blackburrow was crowded, and your group wanted to move to Fearstone, travel was easy. Run to Newport, teleport to Athica and run to Fearstone. Easy, yet people didn't do it. So, why assume that if you make the travel hard, they suddenly think its worth it?

I don't understand the logic of "the best way to spread people out is to make travel harder".

Thats because I think the problem is that the dungeon is unbalanced compared to the others in the same level range, not that the travel is too easy or too hard. I believe that if you made a free porter from Newport to Athica, Fearstone would remain largely empty. If you made boat travel the only option, and charged 10pp on top of it, Fearstone would remain empty. The travel wasn't the reason it was being avoided.

Also, I really do want to see Fearstone become a popular hunting dungeon. It could be, it should be, but is travel the broken piece of the equation?

 

[Zalman]

Most people don't have problems with the boats. I've probably fallen off about 5% of the time (which is better than the boats on live). Cherrypicked streaks of failure don't really prove that the boats are completely unreliable. And if you do fall off the boat, swim back to the docks, another one will be by in five to ten minutes (depending on where you are headed). Also, the Freeport boat bug is client side, as far as I know (I remember it existing on live). You just need to jump off the boat instead of walk off the boat.

You know, one time, my Backstab missed eight times in a row, clearly Backstab is broken and never works at all. One time, I got five resists in a row with my mage, guess she shouldn't bother casting spells, right?

There have already been reworks to a few zones because of the new travel system (Badlands and Goblinskull), so it shouldn't be out of the question that other zones are going to be improved to better support the new player distribution.

You're acting like things aren't going to be improved or changed to better suit the game population.