My take on the thaz revamp

[Arcibu]

I have done all of UT/LT since the revamp minus LT air wing. My perspective on the matter from someone who has actually done the encounters I only see a few things that I think should be changed. Upper thaz fire, the 5 pull at the start is just rediculous. Then after change to thaz mez its even more rediculous. Chaotic winds is over geared for upper thaz we don't even really need that loot anymore and still the pull is basically a fight till we are oom and whipe and that is usually just enough time to kill the 2 golems near the portal then whipe come back and say fuck the other 3 cause you can just run past now. Make this a four pull, way more manageble. I noticed a gm depop a mob last time after some complaints and it was difficult but just not obsurd. 2 golems + 2 elementals is sufficient difficulty. Also Zalnok needs looked into, when i did it we were prob just doing something wrong but whatever he does is nasty and goes off hella quick. Also there is a problem wih LT earth, the 2 mobs on the right that are linked to the first pull are also linked to the worms in upper thaz earth. this is a bug that needs to be dealt with.

Before the change mobs in thaz were up for like 3 hours before they were taken down. Thaz is harder now and since the change mobs in thaz stay up for days cause no one wants to do it anymore. Why does no one want to do it anymore? It is because the loot you get is not worth the time it takes now to aquire. I believe the change to thaz only hurts the server. The new guilds like iratus and retribution and others that were coming up just putting there feet into thaz before the change have now just been screwed over. All you did by this was just put a bigger gap between the tier 8+ guilds and those trying to move up in the game. If you want people to try out the new ikisith content then dont fuck over a ton of people on the server who now are finding it WAY harder to get there guys to the level they need to be to even attempt hatesfury let alone ikisith raid content. Thanks for guaranteeing only 3 maybe 4 guilds will be doing ikisith for a long while. I suppose it will be changed back once you gm's get all your shinies after you learn the strats, oh wait that top guild already knows the strats cause they designed it.

 

[vistachiri]

This has already been fixed if I'm not mistaken.

Confirmed, at least we didn't get them as of early this week.

I suppose it will be changed back once you gm's get all your shinies after you learn the strats, oh wait that top guild already knows the strats cause they designed it.

Also top guild knowing the strats because they designed it is hilarious. I can readily confirm we know 0 ikisith strats, nor really what ikisith will entail (at least nothing that isn't readily found on the forum or announced), and I can also confirm we are the top guild, because we seriously just nom nom nom'd the other two, like 2 days ago. Nor do I think we even have all that much staff in guild. So in that regard, here is your tinfoil hat, proudly presented to you, on this day, February 6th, of the year 2010.

 

[Otcho]

Before the change mobs in thaz were up for like 3 hours before they were taken down. Thaz is harder now and since the change mobs in thaz stay up for days cause no one wants to do it anymore. Why does no one want to do it anymore? It is because the loot you get is not worth the time it takes now to aquire.

Man thats hilarious thats only the same excuse used for every new zone to date. Pofrost arggh the entrance golem is too hard, clears to long argggh. Pofire What the hell is going on all this trash too long for the loot. Undercity argggh what the fuck disease resists who has this!!!?

Hopefully the people who no longer do it came to reason and found out they don't need to farm an entire thaz set for everyone and their alts to progress. If your just entering thaz well bucko man the fuck up.

 

[Xardon]

People need to realize too that the Thaz changes were done pretty quickly, and can lead to potential or unforeseen bugs. If you find something you feel could be a bug, just say something. Don't bitch or whine about changes or tweaks, bring it to a dev's attention, but do it in a polite way and maybe they will listen to you. Bring clear facts, not consistent bitching.

 

[Dinadass]

People need to realize too that the Thaz changes were done pretty quickly, and can lead to potential or unforeseen bugs. If you find something you feel could be a bug, just say something. Don't bitch or whine about changes or tweaks, bring it to a dev's attention, but do it in a polite way and maybe they will listen to you. Bring clear facts, not consistent bitching.

In this spirit, let me bring up a few issues I've noticed in thaz since the revamp:

1. Zalnok instagibs people each time he reappears. Not sure if this is intentional or not, but when I did him after the change, we lost 2-4 people each time he reappeared, and this was with a vastly overgeared/tomed/etc raid. It seemed to be an AE that hit certain people 5+ times instantly for about 2500 a shot. If this is a directional AE or one that hits people that are standing too close then cool, people will learn to deal with it. If not, then it definitely needs to be changed because it appeared to us to just be a total crapshoot and any guild trying this for the first time would be nowhere near uber enough to power through.

2. The 5 white con mobs in the central LT room (where each of the wings branches off) are all linked with each other. Not sure if this is intended or not. Having the one roamer there on his quick respawn seemed like a sufficient way to keep people from idling in that room so I'm not really sure why the extra ones were added anyway. They make the very start of LT Fire and Earth a pain in the ass.

3. The initial LT Earth pull is now 3 linked mobs. I really don't see a t8 raid guild that's breaking into Thaz for the first time being able to handle that. Once your enchanter has thaz mez, then it would be possible, but that pull is going to usually be a "Let's zerg one down before we wipe so then it's a 2 pull." I don't really think that's a good design idea. Maybe later in the wing when you have room to kite or do something creative it would be okay. But right on top of the entrance like that, it's already tight because if anyone lags behind, you're going to get the 5 white cons from the central room.

4. There is an astronomical difficulty jump between LT Fire and the other LT wings. My guild has successfully killed most of the t8 targets in PoFrost, LT Air post-change, and have done a solid chunk of ToT. Yet for both the LT Fire mini and boss, our healers end up running out of mana before the fight is over. The entire raid hits 400+ FR, with a majority hitting 500 FR, and the amount of AE damage combined with the length of the fight is still too much. This is with us having 2 healers at 8k mana (basically full t8/t9 gear in every slot) and the rest being in the high 6k range on average. Unless a guild brings in several ringers (probably DPS) I don't see how these 2 mobs are killable unless you out-gear them significantly.

Oh and in regards to that 5 pull in UT Fire- I've talked to people in 1 guild who swear up and down that it's a 5 pull no matter what, and other people I've talked to say they've split it with no problem at all, so I'm not really sure what to think syduck:

 

[Wesell]

2. The 5 white con mobs in the central LT room (where each of the wings branches off) are all linked with each other.

The above is just not true.

4. There is an astronomical difficulty jump between LT Fire and the other LT wings. My guild has successfully killed most of the t8 targets in PoFrost, LT Air post-change, and have done a solid chunk of ToT. Yet for both the LT Fire mini and boss, our healers end up running out of mana before the fight is over.

These guys are harder than the bosses of the other wings, but that isn't a result of the changes. I would say that this is a bit of an exaggeration of the difficulty of these encounters.

 

[Boehm]

1)The above is just not true.

It was the case at the time. It might have changed. It will certainly be checked.

 

[Jotigidou]

In this spirit, let me bring up a few issues I've noticed in thaz since the revamp:

1. Zalnok instagibs people each time he reappears. Not sure if this is intentional or not, but when I did him after the change, we lost 2-4 people each time he reappeared, and this was with a vastly overgeared/tomed/etc raid. It seemed to be an AE that hit certain people 5+ times instantly for about 2500 a shot. If this is a directional AE or one that hits people that are standing too close then cool, people will learn to deal with it. If not, then it definitely needs to be changed because it appeared to us to just be a total crapshoot and any guild trying this for the first time would be nowhere near uber enough to power through.

2. The 5 white con mobs in the central LT room (where each of the wings branches off) are all linked with each other. Not sure if this is intended or not. Having the one roamer there on his quick respawn seemed like a sufficient way to keep people from idling in that room so I'm not really sure why the extra ones were added anyway. They make the very start of LT Fire and Earth a pain in the ass.

3. The initial LT Earth pull is now 3 linked mobs. I really don't see a t8 raid guild that's breaking into Thaz for the first time being able to handle that. Once your enchanter has thaz mez, then it would be possible, but that pull is going to usually be a "Let's zerg one down before we wipe so then it's a 2 pull." I don't really think that's a good design idea. Maybe later in the wing when you have room to kite or do something creative it would be okay. But right on top of the entrance like that, it's already tight because if anyone lags behind, you're going to get the 5 white cons from the central room.

4. There is an astronomical difficulty jump between LT Fire and the other LT wings. My guild has successfully killed most of the t8 targets in PoFrost, LT Air post-change, and have done a solid chunk of ToT. Yet for both the LT Fire mini and boss, our healers end up running out of mana before the fight is over. The entire raid hits 400+ FR, with a majority hitting 500 FR, and the amount of AE damage combined with the length of the fight is still too much. This is with us having 2 healers at 8k mana (basically full t8/t9 gear in every slot) and the rest being in the high 6k range on average. Unless a guild brings in several ringers (probably DPS) I don't see how these 2 mobs are killable unless you out-gear them significantly.

Oh and in regards to that 5 pull in UT Fire- I've talked to people in 1 guild who swear up and down that it's a 5 pull no matter what, and other people I've talked to say they've split it with no problem at all, so I'm not really sure what to think syduck:

2: Yes the 5 white cons are linked

3: Totally agree. The 3 pull is pretty retarded. Unless you want LowerThaz to be more like a T9 raid.

4: You're exagerating a bit here. And I call total BS on your whole raid having 500+ FR. So that might explain being OOM.

Edit : I just went in again to make sure Wessel is wrong and lo and behold. I went into a corner, and un invised. It aggroed all the corners.

 

[Wesell]

Just after the changes went live we cleared the roamer and the static's in two of the corners so we could experiment with pulling post-change lower Thaz. If they were made linked it was after the initial changes. We've just been invising past that trash so I haven't had a chance to check that stuff in a while.

 

[bignirish88]

2: Yes the 5 white cons are linked

3: Totally agree. The 3 pull is pretty retarded. Unless you want LowerThaz to be more like a T9 raid.

4: You're exagerating a bit here. And I call total BS on your whole raid having 500+ FR. So that might explain being OOM.

Edit : I just went in again to make sure Wessel is wrong and lo and behold. I went into a corner, and un invised. It aggroed all the corners.

The first 3 pull is off the charts retarded. putting an absolute requirement on a guild to have an enchanter with thaz mez is 100% BS. How is a guild supposed to get their enchanter a thaz mez spell if the first pull is so exceptionally difficult that it requires the thaz mez in the first place?

Also what Dinadas said originally was totally the truth, everyone clicked potions and EVERYONE was above 400FR, and if i remember correctly 6 non-healer classes were above 500 FR.

 

[robopirateninja]

The first 3 pull is off the charts retarded. putting an absolute requirement on a guild to have an enchanter with thaz mez is 100% BS. How is a guild supposed to get their enchanter a thaz mez spell if the first pull is so exceptionally difficult that it requires the thaz mez in the first place?

Also what Dinadas said originally was totally the truth, everyone clicked potions and EVERYONE was above 400FR, and if i remember correctly 6 non-healer classes were above 500 FR.

Well, you could kill things in another wing until you get the Thaz mezz? There ARE four. When I broke into LT we had to farm water/earth trash to get the mezz to complete air wing, we couldnt take the multipulls without the mezz.

Also, are you talking in game resists or fomelo resists? Because if it's any kind of decent ae, just 500 wont cut it in any other top tier content either

 

[Crynel]

in referance to the thaz mez ive seen the spell drop off the the whitecon warders at the entrance several times now. its the only thing they can drop aside from nothing.

 

[Jotigidou]

in referance to the thaz mez ive seen the spell drop off the the whitecon warders at the entrance several times now. its the only thing they can drop aside from nothing.

Word.

The white trash drops the spell fairly often now.

As for the FR thing, 400 FR total doesn't cut it.

 

[Xeldan]

in referance to the thaz mez ive seen the spell drop off the the whitecon warders at the entrance several times now. its the only thing they can drop aside from nothing.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Those aren't supposed to drop *anything*. They're there to deter people from just sitting in a single spot camping, not as a source of spells, or anything for that matter.

Woldo!

 

[Kelval]

I guess we could label ourselves as a middle ranged tier 8 guild now (we've beaten a couple of tier 9 encounters but our core targets are tier 8), so here's my toughts on the matter:

- LT seems to be in line with the loot it drops. I can't tell for earth wing as I have yet to try it after the changes.
- UT:
* Haven't tried Zalnok
* The rest seems in line except for fire wing (I'll come back to this in next point): we seem to be able to get past the minis with work but can't nail the named yet.
* Fire wing 4-5 pull is just insanely hard, with 3 tanks and a chanter even. If you account chances to resist Thaz mez etc, your best bet is to zerg and die as someone explained earlier. Even with that, it's not even sure you can kill one trash before the wipe. I'm not sure the trash was intended to be so hard for an on tier guild. Would probably need a tone down (get it down to 3 linked mobs? Or 2/2 unmezzables? But then it would be a bit too easy. Idk).

 

[Lockon97]

personally i think LT Tower watchers are too easy, I was in there early with Ringo, Thanes, Dimmi, Aisling, and a couple of other people who i would consider Low Tier 5 and we only wiped 2x before giving up and going to do easier mobs in ToTs and frost.

 

[Kelval]

About UT fire: how about matching 2 sets of linked mobs.
The idea would be 2 golems (linked together) and 2 eles 1 golem (linked together) that you would have to split apart (1 set from another of course).

That way it's hard, makes the pullers work some (and since the revamp, pullers's job has been dull), and the chanters as well.

But not ridiculously hard as it is now. As it is, this pull is a whole tier 9 at least encounter, that I'd consider harder than Arghol in ToT, Landslide or any LT boss.

 

[Thade]

personally i think LT Tower watchers are too easy, I was in there early with Ringo, Thanes, Dimmi, Aisling, and a couple of other people who i would consider Low Tier 5 and we only wiped 2x before giving up and going to do easier mobs in ToTs and frost.

Who the hell is thanes? we wiped because titanus is bad at giving directions.

 

[Dinadass]

After doing LT water last night I'd say that wing is about where it should be now. The linked 3 pulls are pretty unforgiving but not too bad once people know what to do.

The yellow con ice golems (forgot their exact name) don't appear to be affected by thaz mez correctly though. It would land but immediately fade. Some others I talked to said that thaz mez has been bugged to have a duration of 0 on some targets that are supposed to be mezzable with it.

Also, one of the frost giants managed to cheal himself even though we broke his concentration or whatever that emote is. Did we just not kill that one fast enough or is that a bug?

 

[Xeldan]

The golems in lower water are designed to be tanked not mezed, so it doesn't work on them.

The con of the target doesn't dictate whether or not the mez works on it since this is a special case spell. When you cast it on a target it checks a script and that decides whether or not to apply the mez.