crunchy
*Web Developer and Fomelo Guru*
It depends on my mood. Sometimes, when I'm feeling down, screwing up a few noobs makes me feel better. Other times, helping a newb does it.
My concerns
- Thread starter Jorlaan
- Start date
It depends on my mood. Sometimes, when I'm feeling down, screwing up a few noobs makes me feel better. Other times, helping a newb does it.
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
There was no such time, I would know because this is my server.
There has always been some people who prefer to explore things themselves, and some who would rather have a cheat sheet on hand if they can't figure it out by themselves, and this isn't exactly a binary thing either: Some people will always use the cheat sheet, others only when they're really stuck, etc
I'm personally the former moreso than the latter, but I prefer to let people themselves decide how they want to play and what's fun for them. There's nothing sad about that.
BranFlakes
Dalayan Adventurer
I was speaking of more games than just this one.
Yes it is true folks have a variety of styles, but the general mindset of players themselves has changed alot over the last two decades. Where the majority of folks playing a game when the online gaming scene started would play to see the entire content, now the focus is more on the 'can i beat it quickly' and 'how fast can i max out'. They have become too used to having things handed to them or dumbed down to take off the edge so they can progress.
This can be seen in most of the online games today. Players would get something, others would whine that it was too hard to get (even when others did get it). Makers would comply and make it easier to get. A prime example is EQ itself: it was never intended to be a raid-oriented game at startup.
I'm not saying any of the methods people use to play are wrong. To each his own when it comes to enjoying online gaming. I am just saying that the way most folks start into a game has changed since the inception.
Marttog
Dalayan Beginner
A lot of time, I see just the opposite... well except for the shitty attitude.
Often, someone will be brand-spanking new, and ask something like "Hey! I wanted to start in Freeport, can I just take the PoK there?" And I will politely say something like "SoD is not the same as EQ. I highly suggest you read the wiki, especially the section called Differences between SoD and Live before you get frustrated" I will then be pounced on by 20 people calling me a a-hole for saying "read the wiki".
Of some Ogre named Itankforju askes a question and I will again answer his question, then say "I also suggest you look up the rules section especially the naming policy before you get caught off guard by a name nerf" and I will get inundated with "what are you the name nazi?" or "backseat GMing is a bannable offense, so stfu!"
Excuse me, but in these cases I think the absolute best advice to the person is for them to read the wiki or the rules or whatever. Of course the same people getting their panties in a bunch about me saying to read the wiki, didn't reply to the newbie in the first place. I think they just like gripping at people for whatever reason.
Often, someone will be brand-spanking new, and ask something like "Hey! I wanted to start in Freeport, can I just take the PoK there?" And I will politely say something like "SoD is not the same as EQ. I highly suggest you read the wiki, especially the section called Differences between SoD and Live before you get frustrated" I will then be pounced on by 20 people calling me a a-hole for saying "read the wiki".
Of some Ogre named Itankforju askes a question and I will again answer his question, then say "I also suggest you look up the rules section especially the naming policy before you get caught off guard by a name nerf" and I will get inundated with "what are you the name nazi?" or "backseat GMing is a bannable offense, so stfu!"
Excuse me, but in these cases I think the absolute best advice to the person is for them to read the wiki or the rules or whatever. Of course the same people getting their panties in a bunch about me saying to read the wiki, didn't reply to the newbie in the first place. I think they just like gripping at people for whatever reason.
DreadBlade99
Dalayan Adventurer
I like the new MOTD message too, seems to have cut back the "wiki, noob!" comments fairly well.
As to the attitude, I have seen it both ways too, both to new players asking question and to those trying to be helpful, especially if they are trying to point someone to wiki for naming reasons, "camp" disputes, MQ questions, etc. I think a lot of it boils down to being snarky for it's own sake, just like all the e-peen waving in Athica and /ooc.
Best thing you can do is be helpful in a polite way, suggest players perhaps read the rules section if they need it, and most importantly, grow a thicker skin for cryin' out loud, some people get worked up over the silliest things anymore, i swear
And that's not aimed at the original OP, but to the whiners and cryers out there.
BTW, I've been off and on SoD since early 07, and yeah, the attitude has been there since the beginning, but with more players now, it just shows up more often.
Zubum
Cluzith
Radu
etc, etc, etc
As to the attitude, I have seen it both ways too, both to new players asking question and to those trying to be helpful, especially if they are trying to point someone to wiki for naming reasons, "camp" disputes, MQ questions, etc. I think a lot of it boils down to being snarky for it's own sake, just like all the e-peen waving in Athica and /ooc.
Best thing you can do is be helpful in a polite way, suggest players perhaps read the rules section if they need it, and most importantly, grow a thicker skin for cryin' out loud, some people get worked up over the silliest things anymore, i swear
And that's not aimed at the original OP, but to the whiners and cryers out there.BTW, I've been off and on SoD since early 07, and yeah, the attitude has been there since the beginning, but with more players now, it just shows up more often.
Zubum
Cluzith
Radu
etc, etc, etc
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
The first thing I did when I started playing was freak the wiki. Even today I probably spend about an hour a day reading it. <3 Wikis. Everyone should read it, EVERYONE.
Really, it is ok to suggest that people read the wiki, particulary if the question requires a detailed answer or you are trying to help but don't know all of the answer. The main problem outlined by the OP was that the player who told the new person to check the wiki, did so in an irritating and imtimdating way. "STFU" was completely unnecessary. When I see wording like that, I know I am seeing the words of an immature, insensitive person. Fortunately, this kind of person is fairly rare in a cooperative, old time, PVE fantasy MMO. One of the reasons I am here.
Do you also pull the wings off insects?
crunchy
*Web Developer and Fomelo Guru*
Sometimes. I also like to eat babies and steal candy from little children.
Really you need to learn the difference between noob and newb. A noob is a self-proclaimed expert at playing and never asks questions. A newb is merely a new player unfamiliar with the play.
Whichever you are, there's no call for personal attacks.
Well, it seems I am guilty of sloppy reading and ignorance. I must admit I was unaware of an established distinction between "noob" and "newb" ... I had assumed that these were just different spellings, each meaning "neophyte", though perhaps "noob" being slightly derougatory. I completely missed that you were delibertately making such a distinction and that you were treating each differently, and I might add, rightly so.
Obviously, I had thought you were saying you liked to screw with new players sometimes. Had that really been true, then I think a "personal attack" as you call it, would probably have been warranted. Since it was not true, then an apology is due.
My sincere apologies sir.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Also don't forget the phenomenon of dr00ds.
In the before times, in the long long ago, many of the invaders picked up from the mysterious "drives" would select druid as their class, because "IT SOUNDS TOTALLY AWESOME DUDE!" and yes, it is. However these invaders had no idea how to play the class, and refused to learn, blackening the reputation of the other druids on the server, as well as flooding the server with healers. Bad ones.
Thus ends the tale of the dr00ds.
In the before times, in the long long ago, many of the invaders picked up from the mysterious "drives" would select druid as their class, because "IT SOUNDS TOTALLY AWESOME DUDE!" and yes, it is. However these invaders had no idea how to play the class, and refused to learn, blackening the reputation of the other druids on the server, as well as flooding the server with healers. Bad ones.
Thus ends the tale of the dr00ds.
One of the many reasons I started Moontree. If you are not familiar, we are a guild devoted to helping players, specifically new ones. I personally have geared up more then one a new player. If you see someone asking for help, who is a new player, epically if they aren't getting any, please, get them to do a /who all Moontree and msg one of us! We love to help, and have a fund for that (albeit a small one at the moment, cash donations are hard to come by) as well as some gear. Even tell them to send a pvt message on the forum here to me (at cats74) if they can't find any Moontree members online.
And speaking of Donations, they are always welcome, and always anonymous unless stated otherwise. Please send me a pvt message here if you send any, so I can log in before the 24 hours are up.
triptoy2002
Dalayan Adventurer
Just a quick point I would like to bring out, one that others have touched on. When a person asks a question, and you feel it is important that they go to the wiki for this one, maybe suggesting a more specific location in the wiki would help. The person may not have been aware that the wiki even existed, let alone know how to find what they need in the loads of data that is the wiki.
Marttog did this in his example: "Hey! I wanted to start in Freeport, can I just take the PoK there?" And I will politely say something like "SoD is not the same as EQ. I highly suggest you read the wiki, especially the section called Differences between SoD and Live before you get frustrated"
He pointed them to a specific location in the wiki, which is my point. Maybe even mentioning that Freeport is 50ish+ undead would help to inspire the person to look at the suggested article.
When I'm on, I find myself almost unable to resist answering every question a newb asks, to the point where I always turn ooc and guild off when grouping/raiding, to stop myself from being distracted. I'm not the only one, Many others are constantly helping newbies, with items, advice, buffs/ports, and this makes a huge difference to a new player.
A couple months ago, a rogue was asking for advice on leveling, and he was very discouraged that at the time there were no groups availible for him to jain, and he didnt seem to be able to kill solo well enough to make money to upgrade to make himself a better solo and more desirable for groups. I was in a group when I noticed him asking, so I was busy, but a while later I was not busy, and he was still asking, sounding even more discouraged. I got on my dru, ported him to a better place, buffed him up, and explained the B&E thing that rogues and bards can do for easy low level cash, and directed him to the appropriate articles in the wiki. It seemed that just talking to him, and pointing him in the right direction improved his desire to play, and he even said that I had just kept him from quitting by what I had done for him. He had been told off by the newb guild long enough that he was very discouraged, but he left where we were fired up and ready to play. It made me feel really good to help.
Marttog did this in his example: "Hey! I wanted to start in Freeport, can I just take the PoK there?" And I will politely say something like "SoD is not the same as EQ. I highly suggest you read the wiki, especially the section called Differences between SoD and Live before you get frustrated"
He pointed them to a specific location in the wiki, which is my point. Maybe even mentioning that Freeport is 50ish+ undead would help to inspire the person to look at the suggested article.
When I'm on, I find myself almost unable to resist answering every question a newb asks, to the point where I always turn ooc and guild off when grouping/raiding, to stop myself from being distracted. I'm not the only one, Many others are constantly helping newbies, with items, advice, buffs/ports, and this makes a huge difference to a new player.
A couple months ago, a rogue was asking for advice on leveling, and he was very discouraged that at the time there were no groups availible for him to jain, and he didnt seem to be able to kill solo well enough to make money to upgrade to make himself a better solo and more desirable for groups. I was in a group when I noticed him asking, so I was busy, but a while later I was not busy, and he was still asking, sounding even more discouraged. I got on my dru, ported him to a better place, buffed him up, and explained the B&E thing that rogues and bards can do for easy low level cash, and directed him to the appropriate articles in the wiki. It seemed that just talking to him, and pointing him in the right direction improved his desire to play, and he even said that I had just kept him from quitting by what I had done for him. He had been told off by the newb guild long enough that he was very discouraged, but he left where we were fired up and ready to play. It made me feel really good to help.
Renshu
Dalayan Elder
I propose this as a POLICY for helping newbs in DB guild. Anyone not following this policy will be punished.
Six steps to helping a newb in DB guild chat.
Step One - Preparation
Know all sections of the wiki as well as all server rules and policies. Know solutions to common tech support issues and computer problems. Always be polite and type with a 'smile' in your chat.
Step Two - Greeting
When you approach a newb in DB guild chat always be polite, use the newb's name, and use the standard, SOD approved, greeting. "Hello, Sosando, welcome to SOD, how may I help you"
Example:
Sosando tells the guild, "How do i get uber lootz here lol wutup"
You tell the guild, "Helo, Sosando, welcome to SOD, how may I help you"
Step Three - Qualify
You must ask the right questions to determine the newb's needs. How long has he/she been playing SOD? What other games has he/she played? Are they aware of all available SOD resources and information? The more questions you ask the newb, the better you will be able to help them.
Example (this example is a continuation of the last):
Sosando tells the guild, "UH, I R NEED UBER LOOTZ LOL"
You tell the guild, "Is there a particular slot you are looking to upgrade? What class are you? Have you received loot here before? Are you aware of our player made knowledge base, the SOD wiki."
Step Four - Demonstration
A good help method can not be determined without a good demonstration. Be prepared to show the newb a variety of things. You may have to show him how to get to a zone, how to use a vendor, or even walk through hwo to access the wiki.
Example (again, a continuation):
Sosando tells the guild, "lol wut i want loot do u have some 4 me lulzor maybe PP"
You tell the guild, "Well, Sosando, I can certainly tell you where to get some appropriate loot for you level, where can I meet you?"
Step Five - Overcoming Objections
If the newb does not have any questions and/or objections, you have not done your job. Objections may be big or small, but your ability to overcome them is crucial to closing the newb. Sometimes you can simply re-demonstrate or reinforce. Sometimes you may have to compromise or negotiate.
Example (continuation):
Sosando tells the guild, "LOL y dont u just go get me some gear k thanks"
You tell the guild, "Sosondo, I'm trying to do everything I can to help you. What if I give one piece of loot, then show you where to get the rest of the loot"
Step Six - Closing
At this point you have earned the right to ask the newb to commit to the solution. Don't be afraid!
Example (continuation):
You tell the guild, "Sosando, based on everything you've told me, this is the best solution for your problem. Are you ready to commit?"
Sosando tells the guild, "LOL sure dude get me moar gear lol"
Six steps to helping a newb in DB guild chat.
Step One - Preparation
Know all sections of the wiki as well as all server rules and policies. Know solutions to common tech support issues and computer problems. Always be polite and type with a 'smile' in your chat.
Step Two - Greeting
When you approach a newb in DB guild chat always be polite, use the newb's name, and use the standard, SOD approved, greeting. "Hello, Sosando, welcome to SOD, how may I help you"
Example:
Sosando tells the guild, "How do i get uber lootz here lol wutup"
You tell the guild, "Helo, Sosando, welcome to SOD, how may I help you"
Step Three - Qualify
You must ask the right questions to determine the newb's needs. How long has he/she been playing SOD? What other games has he/she played? Are they aware of all available SOD resources and information? The more questions you ask the newb, the better you will be able to help them.
Example (this example is a continuation of the last):
Sosando tells the guild, "UH, I R NEED UBER LOOTZ LOL"
You tell the guild, "Is there a particular slot you are looking to upgrade? What class are you? Have you received loot here before? Are you aware of our player made knowledge base, the SOD wiki."
Step Four - Demonstration
A good help method can not be determined without a good demonstration. Be prepared to show the newb a variety of things. You may have to show him how to get to a zone, how to use a vendor, or even walk through hwo to access the wiki.
Example (again, a continuation):
Sosando tells the guild, "lol wut i want loot do u have some 4 me lulzor maybe PP"
You tell the guild, "Well, Sosando, I can certainly tell you where to get some appropriate loot for you level, where can I meet you?"
Step Five - Overcoming Objections
If the newb does not have any questions and/or objections, you have not done your job. Objections may be big or small, but your ability to overcome them is crucial to closing the newb. Sometimes you can simply re-demonstrate or reinforce. Sometimes you may have to compromise or negotiate.
Example (continuation):
Sosando tells the guild, "LOL y dont u just go get me some gear k thanks"
You tell the guild, "Sosondo, I'm trying to do everything I can to help you. What if I give one piece of loot, then show you where to get the rest of the loot"
Step Six - Closing
At this point you have earned the right to ask the newb to commit to the solution. Don't be afraid!
Example (continuation):
You tell the guild, "Sosando, based on everything you've told me, this is the best solution for your problem. Are you ready to commit?"
Sosando tells the guild, "LOL sure dude get me moar gear lol"
That list reminds me of the way they tell you to talk to customers, lol; however there is a lot of good stuff there.
Triptoy that is totally the kind of great stuff that people can do, it does take up some time for sure but if it helps commit a player to the game and get him on the right path then it's all worth it. I've spent half a night talking to someone as they are learning their class, giving advise on places to hunt, quests and such. And yeah trying NOT to answer all the questions is hard sometimes, especially if you're busy. I pass on so many I could answer cause I'm in a group and can't get distracted.
Triptoy that is totally the kind of great stuff that people can do, it does take up some time for sure but if it helps commit a player to the game and get him on the right path then it's all worth it. I've spent half a night talking to someone as they are learning their class, giving advise on places to hunt, quests and such. And yeah trying NOT to answer all the questions is hard sometimes, especially if you're busy. I pass on so many I could answer cause I'm in a group and can't get distracted.