My concerns

J

Jorlaan

Dalayan Adventurer
I've been playing SoD for I think about 2 years now, hard to remember for sure, and I realize I don't have many posts so don't bother flaming me about that aspect, I just didn't use the forums a lot before.
Recently I've noticed that the attitude towards newer players seems to be getting, well, downright shitty at times. Earlier tonight there was someone trying to buy some low level weapons for his character and as he's only been around a couple days, lacks a ton of money. He was asking if anyone was willing to sell him one of these weapons for the lower end of the normal range as he is still low on money when someone else, an experienced player I've seen around often, with no joking intended told him, "oh its just pp, go make it and stfu."
The person asking was not spamming, he was being very polite and this was the response.
This is just the most recent incident in what I've noticed as an alarming trend of people dumping on new players over the last few months. Now there are a TON of great players here, if there wasn't I wouldn't be here, but in times when we are trying to recruit new people in is this really the attitude we want? This was not someone asking for a handout, he wanted to pay within the normal price range, just not at the highest end of it.

My other issue is with the attitude in Dalaya's Beginners guild and the attitude towards new players there now as well. I remember being new and having questions, and while I read the forums including the Tome of Knowledge which helped a bunch, and also used (and still do a ton) the wiki to figure things out, there were still questions I had. I found the beginners guild a great place to ask these questions without people just telling me essentially to bugger off, be quiet and check wiki. That is the new attitude I see often in guild chat. Now I realise that some people really have obviously not done even some of the most basic reading before getting started, but many have. The wiki is not perfect, is does not have every answer to every question, that's what the guild exists for. There have been many times I have scoured the wiki for my answers and came up blank, while 1 person in a guild with 80+ online members sometimes, can answer in 10 seconds.

I thought the attitude was to bring people in to the game and make them feel welcome, not drive them out by treating them like dirt.
 
You're right, it is a problem, but I'm not really sure what can be done as it would be completely impractical to try and police this kind of thing. The only real option is to counter this by trying to help these players yourself.
 
Frankly typing "check the wiki" in dalayas beginners as a general response should be against the rules, If you have nothing useful to say about something you know.. I remember having a bunch of assholes in DB a few years ago who would do the same shit to everyone and it always infuriated me that they would blemish new player relations by being outright huge dicks.
 
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Somewhat disagree, using the wiki is a skill that needs to be developed early. You can't rely on someone to answer every question you have 24/7. I will always refer players to the wiki if it's information that's easily and obviously contained within. Self sufficiency should be promoted.

I think a bigger problem is that once these new players hit 65, there's really not much to do besides gaining AA at an excruciatingly slow rate solo/duo until they can amass the gear/AA to be perceived as "useful." I assume SoD loses the most players to this "phase" as they hit burn out.
 
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Reiker said:
Somewhat disagree, using the wiki is a skill that needs to be developed early. You can't rely on someone to answer every question you have 24/7. I will always refer players to the wiki if it's information that's easily and obviously contained within.
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The people I and the op are referring to are not the players who want you to actively learn to use the wiki, they are the ones who instead of giving a simple answer to where do I kill at 10-20 they actively type out an entire line devoted to telling you how you are a tit sucking babby and need to grow up and use the wiki. Or "When do I get dualwield at a rogue" instead of typing "15" they type "Learn to use the wiki" Yes you should not rely on everyone to tell you everything but the fact is a lot of them use it as a veil to be complete dicks and chastise new players. Maybe they did check the wiki, maybe they failed to properly spell what they searched for or the wiki gave them improper results due to a misplaced comma. Not to mention the situations where the wiki was flat out wrong/incorrect.

Maybe I am in a critical portion of a quest and need to know something fast but my pc cant handle the load of opening the internet browser because its a piece of shit from 1997 and I cant open the wiki to find out how to stop thog from killing me argh!!!


Reiker said:
I think a bigger problem is that once these new players hit 65, there's really not much to do besides gaining AA at an excruciatingly slow rate solo/duo until they can amass the gear/AA to be perceived as "useful." I assume SoD loses the most players to this "phase" as they hit burn out.
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Except thats basically what the endgame consists of, slow repetitious acts to improve your character whether you do it with others or not. This thread isn't about players at 65 being antisocial elitists its about the community slowing transmogrifying into a giant dick and new players being treated poorly.
 
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Agree 100% with Otcho, especially when someone says "check the wiki" and has no idea if the info is even IN the wiki. Fucking assholes.
 
Agreed it's an annoying attitude but really it's not an alarming trend. This happens in all games. Just do your part and be helpful. Let them be assholes. These people usually feel the need to be cool in an internet game, hah.
 
it's a dissapointing trend in general. i rememeber being able to read ooc and there was a uselful exchange of information and also a good amount of respect between players. i've had to turn ooc off at this point of the game because its been turned into a chatroom of people trying to sound witty and seeing who can use the most internet slang in one sentence. makes me feel bad for newer players trying to get around in this online world but i just can't take reading that crap anymore.


Nuvian
 
I've asked quite a few people not to just spam "wiki it" at people, especially in DB. If you don't have something nice (and helpful) to say, just shut the hell up in Dalaya's Beginners please and thank you. Directing someone to particular page they've found useful is one thing (particularly when the subject requires a length explanation; Hotkeys, Commands and Controls I've found are particularly helpful in general) but it's even better when done with a brief explanation. Hell, I have the wiki open when I play half the time (big shock there), so when I see someone ask something I know is there, I look it up and give the answer when possible, and suggest they check out the wiki too, because it can be helpful. When it's not there, I usually suggest someone add it to the wiki for next time.

But yeah, I'm glad people are finding it useful now (when I started playing, I was repeatedly told not to check the wiki >_>) but it's a community project to help expand our knowledge, I wish people wouldn't use it to bash players just asking simple questions. I think some people don't realize that they're hurting more than helping when they do this, so if you see people do this, please ask them politely not to be so heavy handed with directing people to the wiki :x
 
As a new guy (6mos on SoD I think) I thank god I have 8yrs of Live experience behind me. There have been times when the wiki just didn't cut it, and if I hadn't had the general knowledge of game mechanics / classes / or terrain already, I would have just walked away. After seeing some of the responses given to "newbs" in the beginners guild chat, I'd rather just figure it out myself, even if it takes longer.

On the other hand, the people I've run into in game have all been very helpful and supportive. Reminds me of pre Kunark actually.

But the beginners chat can get pretty nasty sometimes towards new folks.

Just my 2coppers
 
Sadly enough, the wiki also gives rise to the sad effect of: alot of people that might otherwise go explore the world just sit around and ask for handouts of information instead of searching for something new. To this crowd, if it isnt on the wiki, it just doesnt exist anyway.

That's what alot of older players find annoying: when something should be obvious to folks if they just played instead of sitting around in a 'wiki says this is where i need to be' spot not even knowing what their options are.

I spent alot of time (still do on occasion) giving out information when asked for, heck for a long time I used to run the Bran Games for prizes if you answered certain knowledge questions. But sometimes just trying to figure it out yourself is a better option (not stuff like hotkeys, things like 'where should i be hunting?' or 'what does this spell do?'. Teach a man to fish and all that...
 
Obviously I'm not bashing the wiki or saying that it's not something people need to check, cause it is. But there are so many instances where people are just told to bugger off to the wiki when the same amount of typing to tell them that could have answered the question.
I remember asking if a specific stat combo on player made jewelery existed once, so I asked. The only response I kept getting was go to wiki. Now If I have no idea what item I'm even looking for, then it makes it much harder to find it. I can search pages and pages of items trying to find it, or someone can simple say the words, "Yes" or "No". Its not a difficult concept.
I use the wiki on an almost daily basis sometimes, but as I have said there is a ton of info NOT on there. Many mobs have no info whatsoever on even basic things like level for instance.
All I'm really saying is that people need to be aware of the wiki and know to use it, but they should not in any way be afraid to ask a question in the place that is stated to be "The place to ask silly newbish questions".
Oh and I do answer as many questions as I can myself. I try and help out the new players as much as possible, but I can't answer em all. When there are over 40 55+ people on in guild chat I think someone can help out.
 
BranFlakes said:
Sadly enough, the wiki also gives rise to the sad effect of: alot of people that might otherwise go explore the world just sit around and ask for handouts of information instead of searching for something new. To this crowd, if it isnt on the wiki, it just doesnt exist anyway.

That's what alot of older players find annoying: when something should be obvious to folks if they just played instead of sitting around in a 'wiki says this is where i need to be' spot not even knowing what their options are.

I spent alot of time (still do on occasion) giving out information when asked for, heck for a long time I used to run the Bran Games for prizes if you answered certain knowledge questions. But sometimes just trying to figure it out yourself is a better option (not stuff like hotkeys, things like 'where should i be hunting?' or 'what does this spell do?'. Teach a man to fish and all that...
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If people don't want people asking newbish questions they probably should not be in Dalaya's Beginners.

Also, this is just silly nostalgia. There has never been a time when most people didn't prefer to just ask someone instead of playing through a quest or zone themselves. It's just moved from OOC and forums to the wiki.

Anyway, I added a new MOTD to DB.
 
Silly Nostalgia is the reason most of us play an eq emulator. :toot:

You may not recall a time when folks would rather explore than have it handed to them. But, mayhap, we ran in different circles.
 
I am talking about exactly what I posted. It seemed pretty straight forward, even to a tired old fart. There is a wide extreme between 'robust pioneer' and 'play the game for me'. I, like many others, try to help those people who at least don't fall into the last category.
 
He was asking if anyone was willing to sell him one of these weapons for the lower end of the normal range as he is still low on money when someone else, an experienced player I've seen around often, with no joking intended told him, "oh its just pp, go make it and stfu."
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It's not very nice, but sometimes new players beg and other people get tired of it. This doesn't sound like a beggar, but it could be the experienced player was just tired of it.

But did you defend the guy or just come here to post about it? Was the guy repeatedly asking for someone to sell him stuff, or was it a one shot question. Someone coming on during one's play time, and asking for stuff every 2 minutes might drive me to tell him to shut up too. "Someone! Sell me a mithril 2hs weapon for 20pp!" "Anyone got a mithril 2hs weapon for 20pp? I only have 20pp but I NEED a mithril 2hs!"

Really, the appropriate way to ask would be "/auction wtb mithril 2hs or pst if you know a mithril weapon vendor pls".

At the same time, the appropriate way to respond is not to say STFU but "please don't beg in ooc, but you can browse listsold on the web using www.../vendorlist"

"This is just the most recent incident in what I've noticed as an alarming trend of people dumping on new players over the last few months.
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This is not new. This has existed since I've started. The difference between here and live though is that the percentage of attitude here is considerably less.

I found the beginners guild a great place to ask these questions without people just telling me essentially to bugger off, be quiet and check wiki.
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Certain new players do nothing but ask questions. It's not really wrong, but certain questions are much tougher to answer when you're in the middle of something. And certain new players frankly get ANGRY if no one bothers to respond.

I've seen some players take the attitude that it's the responsibility of other players to answer questions. It's not. If I am not otherwise busy and I know the answer, I will try to answer, but I am not going to be able to adequately tell you how to find the X spot in zone A where you need to find a certain NPC or location. The wiki is the best place for that. If the wiki doesn't have that info, then when you find it, update the wiki! Don't expect people to hold your hand.

Sometimes if I answer questions as a player, people start sending me tells asking me MORE questions. This is frustrating for me, and makes me not want to answer questions in concerns of getting tells.

At the same time, no, it's not really appropriate to tell people to go use the wiki and STFU. If you can't answer the question and/or don't want to, then don't. If you are tired of hearing questions, either turn off guild chat (options-filter-guild), or *leave* the guild.

But I've seen people who didn't use the wiki merely because the didn't wish to bother, not because they didn't know how or couldn't. Really, use the wiki. It's there for a reason. People have spent untold hours updating it for your use. Rari has spent untold hours redesigning it to make it better.
 
Damn miitru, when did you get lost on the path I remember days of white knighting innocent noobs in dalayas beginners and now your all jerk about them =(
 
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