Monk Two-Hand Blunt

Manguadi

Manguadi

Dalayan Beginner
I'm wondering why so many high-end monks favor 2hb over 1hb and h2h.

The best 2hb in the game that I'm aware of is the Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff. It has a ratio of 1.69 compared to bare fists with Fleshbonded Fighting Claws (3 magic damage) that have a combined ratio of 1.78. Because melee mastery affects only the primary hand, the ratio will be slightly skewed in favor of the 2hb, but it can't be that much. In any case, through many, many parses I have found that my 2hb dps is significantly lower than using 2 one-handed weapons, and it is relatively proportional to the difference between the ratios.

In essence, 2hb weapons are lower dps than one-handed weapons of the same tier.

Let's compare the Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff to Fist of Solid Ice + Funeral Guardian's Tonfa.

Staff: 1.69 ratio 25str 25sta 30dex 265hp 15mr 15fr 2% crit 8% stun resist
Fist&Tonfa: 1.82 ratio 26str 31dex 15agi 300hp 9mr 9cr

Granted, I have no idea what the procs are on any of those. I'd say that the stats on the staff are better than the 2 one-hand weapons, which also seems common.

After speaking with a handful of monks, the only rational explanation I've gotten is that monks steal aggro from tanks too quickly with 1h weapons. I've never noticed this personally, but I can understand how it might happen.

What other reasons are there?
 
The ratio difference doesn't seem to be as big as the numbers that you give. Also no new monks will be getting funeral guardians tonfa in the near future since Cmal 4.2 hasn't been done with a monk yet. But then again there is always screamstrike with 1 less damage.

I personally use the obsidian shard staff for 3 reasons:
1) DPS doesn't seem very different from using fist of solid ice and screamstrike
2) The stats are better, crit strike and stun resist is great
3) AUX TANKING, you will take WAY more damage aux tanking with 1 handers

There also hasn't been any new h2h or 1hb weapons for monks since screamstrike(IP)/flame mace(Lower Thaz)/Fist of solid ice(Lower Thaz), so it will definitely be interesting to see if the next big h2h/1hb weapon is a substantial enough DPS increase to be used over 2 handers.
 
Eldorath said:
Also no new monks will be getting funeral guardians tonfa in the near future since Cmal 4.2 hasn't been done with a monk yet.
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Pretty much totally wrong. Monks are pretty sweet in 4-2.
 
We also shouldn't forget that monks with 1handers can grab aggro in almost every situation from almost every toon.
 
Manguadi said:
After speaking with a handful of monks, the only rational explanation I've gotten is that monks steal aggro from tanks too quickly with 1h weapons. I've never noticed this personally, but I can understand how it might happen.

What other reasons are there?
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Another reason to use a two-hander rather than two one-handers for monks (rangers too) is that they get the chance to triple-attack with the primary hand, the secondary hand can only double.

Edit: Actualy the Melee Mastery AA makes the double attack with the primary hand never fail, this goes for all melees.
 
Wesell said:
Another reason to use a two-hander rather than two one-handers for monks (rangers too) is that they get the chance to triple-attack with the primary hand, the secondary hand can only double.

Edit: Actualy the Melee Mastery AA makes the double attack with the primary hand never fail, this goes for all melees.
Click to expand...

From what I've been told (and observed casually), ambidexterity makes primary and secondary hand identical, including triple attacks. Even w/o ambi you can triple in your offhand, but ambi makes the point more strongly.
 
Oh, I'm glad I posted here then, I didn't know that. Can anyone confirm that it is the case that triple attack and no-fail double attack work on the secondary hand (and by confirm I mean have attempted to test it or have first hand knowledge of how the backend handles these checks)?
 
Manguadi said:
I'm wondering why so many high-end monks favor 2hb over 1hb and h2h.

The best 2hb in the game that I'm aware of is the Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff. It has a ratio of 1.69 compared to bare fists with Fleshbonded Fighting Claws (3 magic damage) that have a combined ratio of 1.78. Because melee mastery affects only the primary hand, the ratio will be slightly skewed in favor of the 2hb, but it can't be that much. In any case, through many, many parses I have found that my 2hb dps is significantly lower than using 2 one-handed weapons, and it is relatively proportional to the difference between the ratios.

In essence, 2hb weapons are lower dps than one-handed weapons of the same tier.

Let's compare the Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff to Fist of Solid Ice + Funeral Guardian's Tonfa.

Staff: 1.69 ratio 25str 25sta 30dex 265hp 15mr 15fr 2% crit 8% stun resist
Fist&Tonfa: 1.82 ratio 26str 31dex 15agi 300hp 9mr 9cr

Granted, I have no idea what the procs are on any of those. I'd say that the stats on the staff are better than the 2 one-hand weapons, which also seems common.

After speaking with a handful of monks, the only rational explanation I've gotten is that monks steal aggro from tanks too quickly with 1h weapons. I've never noticed this personally, but I can understand how it might happen.

What other reasons are there?
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Eldorath nailed it on pretty much all fronts, but I personally use the Greatstaff because it hits less times than 1HB. The fact that monks have outright insane aggro generation is the only real reason I don't use one handers, because I've pulled aggro off of Finster without too much of a problem, and Sald aggro isn't anything spectacular.

My main point is that I use the 2HB because without it I'd be an aggro machine, and since I'm always boxing someone else, if I have to worry about FDing my monk every 5% or something then I'll lose focus.
 
Draxx said:
My main point is that I use the 2HB because without it I'd be an aggro machine, and since I'm always boxing someone else, if I have to worry about FDing my monk every 5% or something then I'll lose focus.
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So if the DPS, like Eldorath said, isn't that different between 1h and 2h, why does 1h generate so much aggro? Does anyone know enough about aggro generation to speak to this?
 
Its the speed of the strike and not the dmg afaik that generates the majority of agro.

I could be wrong but /shrug.
 
Manguadi said:
From what I've been told (and observed casually), ambidexterity makes primary and secondary hand identical, including triple attacks. Even w/o ambi you can triple in your offhand, but ambi makes the point more strongly.
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Ambi only affects the dual wield roll, nothing else, but in effect the two hands do become identical asides from melee mastery.
 
So are you confirming that native Monk and Ranger triple attack works on the offhand, but not Melee Mastery?
 
Wesell said:
So are you confirming that native Monk and Ranger triple attack works on the offhand, but not Melee Mastery?
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Yes. BST AA triple from MM works on offhand too (Unless it says otherwise in the text, i don't recall)
 
Manguadi said:
So if the DPS, like Eldorath said, isn't that different between 1h and 2h, why does 1h generate so much aggro? Does anyone know enough about aggro generation to speak to this?
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From what I know about how aggro works, it's the amount of times that a mob is being hit, not the amount of damage caused. So if my monk hits something 60 times in a span of about 10 seconds and does 1600 damage, it will be more aggro than if someone hits a mob only 20 times in that same ten seconds, for 1600 damage.

Syalara said:
Its the speed of the strike and not the dmg afaik that generates the majority of agro.

I could be wrong but /shrug.
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Safiya is partially right, but a GoE'd monk with one-handers is murderous aggro generation in comparison to that of a warrior, or anyone else for that matter. This is just because we hit so fast and so often.
 
Wiz said:
Yes. BST AA triple from MM works on offhand too (Unless it says otherwise in the text, i don't recall)
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Melee Mastery says it has a small chance to add attacks to mainhand for beastlords.
 
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