Monk Feign Death

Wiz just hates monks so dont expect anything to be changed.

Some ultra pro high end monks basically support the stance: "Your a noob, and a noob, and a noob, we are not going to change it for YOU"

Really cant blame Wiz for not really wanting to do anything about it.

AND yes.. /s 14 works fine. 1 time... then youre out of stamina. So you want me to wait until i get stamina back AFTER i used it, to be working as intended...I basically have only two options:

1. FD fails => Run around (if you still got some distance to the mob by the time you see your fd failed) and hope you survive until FD is up again
If youre lucky (or how some would say, "skilled") you can go pull again

2. FD fails => Use stance 14 and re FD
now s 14 helped us to survive the pull. For the next 10 or so minutes, every failed FD means instant death OR youre lucky enough to do 1.) and survive

So basically. I have the choice between waiting until i got stamina again, or just going out there and die a few times on pull when my FD fails

Thats a minimum of 10 Minutes downtime per failed FD.


ANYWAY.. some common misunderstandings about the superior Monk FD

1. Monk FD is instant therefore its the best FD in the game - Its nice to split static non casters. After that its totally situational if your INSTANT FD will give you any advantage over another FD class. When youve got 2 casters casting on you, it doesnt really matter how instant ur FD is, to pull this off youre going to need timing (or luck). So yes, Monk FD on the paper looks like the best FD. In reality though its not a big offset

2. Monk FD doesnt cost mana and you can pull with DF on - Again nice in theory. Until the point where we are supposed to use our invuln stance when FD fails. Guess what? Invul stance doesnt work without stamina, and even if youre being buffed to top notch after your res, the chance of you dieing on next pull is UNREASONABLY higher. Imho, this almost counters the whole "Monks can pull while DF" argument. BTW you can also use AA FDs with DF on.

There is 1 big bonus with monk FD. Its instant and you can FD while stunned. But yeah, this doesnt give any offset either. There is no pull in the game I know of where you cant pull the mob without it getting into melee range before you flop.. This really only helps occasionally, and usually its not the high end monks that have problems getting stunned.

Monk FD is pretty balanced in group situations. And this is the place where you can say Monks are the masters of pulling.
Raidwise, its a totally different situation, in my humble opinion. Every class has its advantages somewhere, but monks are definately not the masters of pulling in a raiding situation (at least not at the point where youre out of stamina)
 
"Wiz just hates monks..."

This statement alone is further from the truth than everything that comes after. And that's a pretty long distance.
 
Yeah, Wiz loves monks, why are you making choices for what/who he hates? That seems pretty hateful man
 
Just an apology in advance.. I'm currently using a 22" widescreen monitor and I'm still adjusting to it. If words are cramped to you it's because they aren't to me so there might be huge paragraphs of jammed up words.

Monance said:
AND yes.. /s 14 works fine. 1 time... then youre out of stamina. So you want me to wait until i get stamina back AFTER i used it, to be working as intended...I basically have only two options:

1. FD fails => Run around (if you still got some distance to the mob by the time you see your fd failed) and hope you survive until FD is up again
If youre lucky (or how some would say, "skilled") you can go pull again

2. FD fails => Use stance 14 and re FD
now s 14 helped us to survive the pull. For the next 10 or so minutes, every failed FD means instant death OR youre lucky enough to do 1.) and survive

So basically. I have the choice between waiting until i got stamina again, or just going out there and die a few times on pull when my FD fails

Thats a minimum of 10 Minutes downtime per failed FD.


ANYWAY.. some common misunderstandings about the superior Monk FD

1. Monk FD is instant therefore its the best FD in the game - Its nice to split static non casters. After that its totally situational if your INSTANT FD will give you any advantage over another FD class. When youve got 2 casters casting on you, it doesnt really matter how instant ur FD is, to pull this off youre going to need timing (or luck). So yes, Monk FD on the paper looks like the best FD. In reality though its not a big offset

2. Monk FD doesnt cost mana and you can pull with DF on - Again nice in theory. Until the point where we are supposed to use our invuln stance when FD fails. Guess what? Invul stance doesnt work without stamina, and even if youre being buffed to top notch after your res, the chance of you dieing on next pull is UNREASONABLY higher. Imho, this almost counters the whole "Monks can pull while DF" argument. BTW you can also use AA FDs with DF on.

There is 1 big bonus with monk FD. Its instant and you can FD while stunned. But yeah, this doesnt give any offset either. There is no pull in the game I know of where you cant pull the mob without it getting into melee range before you flop.. This really only helps occasionally, and usually its not the high end monks that have problems getting stunned.

Monk FD is pretty balanced in group situations. And this is the place where you can say Monks are the masters of pulling.
Raidwise, its a totally different situation, in my humble opinion. Every class has its advantages somewhere, but monks are definately not the masters of pulling in a raiding situation (at least not at the point where youre out of stamina)
Click to expand...
As a SK I beg to differ. A few obvious points to make regarding SK FD:

1)SK uses a spell.
2)SKs spell casting can be interrupted.
3)SK does have no fizzle AAs however.
4)SK has mez stance and providing the mobs can be mezzed, it's just as good as a monks invul stance and also takes 10 minutes to come back up.
5)SK FD takes about 1 second to cast. 1 sec or 1.5, whatever it is. Not instant but still fairly good. Also spell bar refresh time is like 3 seconds or whatever it is but the spell itself is instant recast.

In a sense SK too has a fail FD, being interrupted. If you don't have your AAs, also spell fizzles. That 1 second it takes a SK to cast his FD could make or break a caster being in range to cast on you, those mobs coming in range of you, to interrupt your casting. That's a small point to make, if not pointless because the situations for it is rare, but it's there regardless as a reason monk FD being instant does make a difference over SK FD hence why it is the best FD in the game. You need more? Well here goes.

Your reasoning is good regarding DF pulling but you too are making almost pointless points. One of the biggest reasons monk FD destroys SK is because it's a skill. No mana required, no waiting on DF required. You blow your invul stance, good job, do it again when it's up. You're a monk. Your job is to die time and again if need be to get the pulling job done. If you die, get rezzed up and keep on pulling. No waiting. No real downtime unless YOU cause it because you have a problem with dying. SK pullers are required downtime. Monk pullers can keep on jamming til the cows come home with the only downtime being the time needed to zone, rez, zone. Yes, monks are very much the masters of pulling in every situation. People love them for it. The only downside about it is the monks pay the price with a lot of deaths and frustration.

The one lone thing SK FD has on a monk FD is when you have your no fizzle AAs done on SK the only thing that will stop you is interruptions or being casted on. That just isn't enough to warrant not calling monk FD the best. The ability to pull when DF is on totally outweighs it. Yes a SK will die less... on paper. When mobs are pounding on you though, monk FD vs SK FD is like comparing apples and oranges. And damn it I would give you my first born child if I had one for SK to FD while stunned. I can't recall how many times I ate dirt from a stun.

Do correct me if I got anything wrong, but my main point stands, a monks downtime vs a sks downtime is massive and is why monks FD is the best by 20 trillion zillion billion miles. Of course none of these points make a hill of beans as to why monks should get a no fail FD. Basically I'm reading that pullers are tired of dying and they want it to stop. I can't say I blame you whatsoever. Zoning, rez, zoning, crash, relog in, zoning, buffs, pull, die, repeat gets old. Maybe monks deserve a no fail FD after all the skilling up they had to do to max it. It sucks to fail a FD I'm sure but you aren't alone for there are many things in this game that require skill ups and fail too. But, as things are at the moment, monks are the masters of pulling for multiple of reasons. SKs still have a role in the department however, and still have to raise their magic skills due to fizzle factors so you can't say SKs don't work to improve their FD, so it's only fair for SK's FD to be improved in some way to make life easier for them if monk FD is ever touched. If it is ever touched, my support for it would be solely because it would help pullers to not go insane from the frustration. I'm up for anything that prevents people from not wanting to play so long as things don't start becoming WoW inc. Just for the record, I hate fizzles and resists, but I live with them as part of the game. I also know that if they didn't exist, this game would be all too easy and too weak to go the distance. Just something to think about when we ALL are cursing whatever we like to curse ingame for existing to make things harder.
 
Romuzari, stay on topic or get the hell out. This is why I hate threads on monk FD because it turns into a cock-waving contest of "YOUR FD IS BETTER THAN MY FD SO STOP COMPLAINING"

The fact is, I believe monk FD shouldn't fail, but obviously not a lot of people agree with me. I've outlined reasons why I believe it should not fail, and if it is changed then good. If not, I'm not going to cry over it.
 
ya thats pretty much the reason why every monk FD thread dies after like 3 days. If i would get just a copper for every "ur fd is so much better, so your thread = crap " and "ur just too dumb to pull, so your thread = crap" post - I'd get my 1 mill charm in no time

The main thing is that after level 39 you get no way to increase your FD (decrease your failure rate) anymore, and its kind of the main skill of a monk. I dont think that high level monks want an unfailable FD. But there should be ways via equipment and higher tier item drops, and probably even a Monk FD tome, that finally bring your FD to an unfailable state. Even an altering of the monk MQ gem, removing the block mod (unless they changed it again) and replacing it by a small FD mod.

this is not imbalanced because it doesnt triviazlize anything in the game for a monk. It just removes a nuisance and timesink for really high level people. after all you still need to split mobs, deal with casters and all the other great things of pulling. In the end of the day, a monks failed FD doesnt only cause himself grief, but also the whole raid thats waiting and losing time

in short: NO unfailable FD for all monks, make it a reward for questing/exping/raiding to not make this avail. for everyone right from the start. Just gives us A WAY to work on it.
 
Monk FD completely, and instantly, drops all agro when attacking a mob.

You want this to never, ever, have a chance to fail.

You dont see a balancing issue here? At all?

:psyduck:

Cinn said:
Instead of trying to get concrete game mechanics changed to make things easier for everyone, perhaps everyone should just learn to play better.
Click to expand...
 
Nope. I dont see that as unbalanced. Especially when you implement it at a higher tier, there is no imbalance at all. It just removes downtime from raids, and gives people who have put in the work to get said item/tome/whatever a benefit.

But yeah Cinn.. Obviously i suck at pulling thats why i replied on this thread. Please reread the 1st part of my last post
 
Monance said:
But yeah Cinn.. Obviously i suck at pulling thats why i replied on this thread. Please reread the 1st part of my last post
Click to expand...

Because Cinn mentioned pulling, and you being bad at pulling in his post. A complete, instant aggro wipe for a high dps class with NO CHANCE OF FAILURE EVER with a 6 second reuse timer is pretty imbal. Did you ever consider the failure is there for THAT, instead of making pulls take longer? Every other class has to jolt/conc etc several times, or cast their fd + stand. Monk is instant.

ONCE AGAIN, PERHAPS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PULLING, AND MORE TO DO WITH THE AGGRO WIPE?

Just once more for to make it clear. The failure MAY NOT BE TO MAKE PULLING HARDER, BUT INSTEAD BE SO THAT YOU DONT HAVE AN INSTANT 100% AGGRO WIPE EVERY 6 SECONDS.

Thanks and good night.
 
Monance said:
Nope. I dont see that as unbalanced.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure I'd rather have FD over Evade as a Rogue. I'm pretty sure evade fails at leas 10x more than FD, and it is on a reuse that is twice as long as FD.
 
Failing a FD and dying because you pull aggro pretty much never happens. If you don't want to get aggro you should be doing FD multiple times for every mob you engage, which works fine. Having the FD go from 5% chance of failing to 0% chance of failing has almost no impact on its aggro dropping, its all about the pulling.

Anyway, I don't even remember if this is the thread that I previously read all of because these keep popping up. But yeah, no fail FD is not going to happen. It would be neat to have some tomes or something that reduce the fail rate somewhat. I'm not sure there is much more to say...
 
Item to reduce failure rate would be nice. Im often envious of SK's unfailable FD, if you are pulling from a distance mobs are not going to hit you right away anyway. /shrug

It was amusing watching most of you be your only biggest fans, just like monks on live.
 
jedz said:
Item to reduce failure rate would be nice. Im often envious of SK's unfailable FD, if you are pulling from a distance mobs are not going to hit you right away anyway. /shrug

It was amusing watching most of you be your only biggest fans, just like monks on live.
Click to expand...


Raak was a great monk :tinfoil:
 
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