Mob AI
- Thread starter robsson
- Start date
I would say that an enchanter mob going straight for the healer mez is a bit over-board. Granted, enchanced AI can make for enjoyable experiences... but since most caster mobs cannot be interrupted easily, allowing them to disable critical classes at the beginning of the fight really makes it impossible, especially for duos or small groups.
Stunning the healer is alright, you can recover from that, but mezzing the healer is a bit much. ;(
Along those lines... it might also be an idea to make mob root easier to resist. Like, a lot easier. A rooted player stands no chance of escaping if something goes wrong... and rooting the melees and healers, and then aggroing on the healers, gives the melee no ability to taunt it back off, which = dead healer which = dead melee.
Smarter mobs were definately needed, but making them so smart that they decimate everybody with their AE, Root and Mez spells (ASWELL as being physically superior in regards damage and HP) makes leveling and AAing more of a trial than an experience. Granted, it's good for raids... but a single exp group / duo likes things simple and easy to manage.
Stunning the healer is alright, you can recover from that, but mezzing the healer is a bit much. ;(
Along those lines... it might also be an idea to make mob root easier to resist. Like, a lot easier. A rooted player stands no chance of escaping if something goes wrong... and rooting the melees and healers, and then aggroing on the healers, gives the melee no ability to taunt it back off, which = dead healer which = dead melee.
Smarter mobs were definately needed, but making them so smart that they decimate everybody with their AE, Root and Mez spells (ASWELL as being physically superior in regards damage and HP) makes leveling and AAing more of a trial than an experience. Granted, it's good for raids... but a single exp group / duo likes things simple and easy to manage.
I actually find adding AI to a mob would make it better. I mean, we have common sense, so why shouldn't they? Of course, agreeing with Melwin that SOME power should be decreased, because then it'd just be rape. 
I don't see how thats not fair? If anything, should have it so the mob charms the warrior and have it kill the cleric.
I don't see how thats not fair? If anything, should have it so the mob charms the warrior and have it kill the cleric.
The problem with that, Darkyth, is when the group consists of ONLY a warrior and a cleric. The mob becomes invincible, since it can't be interrupted. This leads to much frustration, which leads to loss of playerbase.
The mob AI was enhanced, and it was pretty cool. Then it was enhanced some more and it's become unmanagable. They're smarter than us.
The mob AI was enhanced, and it was pretty cool. Then it was enhanced some more and it's become unmanagable. They're smarter than us.
I'm still waiting to see mob AI increased.
I'm seeing mobs heal themselves at the start of battle. They're only down 5 to 10% of their HP and they're blowing mana in heals.
I'm seeing mobs that SHOULD be stunning not doing so. Chanter class mobs that attempt to mez a pet instead of the monk beating the snot out of it not bothering to try and shift before casting the mez.
Paladin mobs however *do* have the chain-stun thing down. And against Iksars at least it whoops their ass.
The mob AI does need some tweaking... But the question becomes do we want to basically FORCE grouping for doing certain areas (areas with Paladins, Clerics, Chanters) or what?
I'm seeing mobs heal themselves at the start of battle. They're only down 5 to 10% of their HP and they're blowing mana in heals.
I'm seeing mobs that SHOULD be stunning not doing so. Chanter class mobs that attempt to mez a pet instead of the monk beating the snot out of it not bothering to try and shift before casting the mez.
Paladin mobs however *do* have the chain-stun thing down. And against Iksars at least it whoops their ass.
The mob AI does need some tweaking... But the question becomes do we want to basically FORCE grouping for doing certain areas (areas with Paladins, Clerics, Chanters) or what?
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
I'm seeing mobs heal themselves at the start of battle. They're only down 5 to 10% of their HP and they're blowing mana in heals.
- You're two patches late. This is fixed.
I'm seeing mobs that SHOULD be stunning not doing so. Chanter class mobs that attempt to mez a pet instead of the monk beating the snot out of it not bothering to try and shift before casting the mez.
- It mezzes the supports, not the main hate. Do you see Zerek mezzing the mob that the MT is on?
- You're two patches late. This is fixed.
I'm seeing mobs that SHOULD be stunning not doing so. Chanter class mobs that attempt to mez a pet instead of the monk beating the snot out of it not bothering to try and shift before casting the mez.
- It mezzes the supports, not the main hate. Do you see Zerek mezzing the mob that the MT is on?
I'll double check the healing... I know the Kobolds were really bad about that.
As for the mez.... I know most chanters when they're in trouble try to mez/charm the best target. Either the biggest damage dealer or something that's going to be able to be used as a pet to nutralize another target... Are you saying that the AI doesn't take into account that the player is going to be a bigger threat and probably an easier target to mez/charm than the elemental that's poking it is?
As for the mez.... I know most chanters when they're in trouble try to mez/charm the best target. Either the biggest damage dealer or something that's going to be able to be used as a pet to nutralize another target... Are you saying that the AI doesn't take into account that the player is going to be a bigger threat and probably an easier target to mez/charm than the elemental that's poking it is?
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
hazer said:I'll double check the healing... I know the Kobolds were really bad about that.
As for the mez.... I know most chanters when they're in trouble try to mez/charm the best target. Either the biggest damage dealer or something that's going to be able to be used as a pet to nutralize another target... Are you saying that the AI doesn't take into account that the player is going to be a bigger threat and probably an easier target to mez/charm than the elemental that's poking it is?
Uh, no, because if I took it to that level and completely ignored hate, then you see, ubermobs would always run after clerics since that way they would always win.
The entire basis of the AI is "The Mob REALLY wants to kill its hate top", and if I neglect that, mobs become unkillable.
The thing I find the worst is how some mobs cannot be interrupted at all, making them virtually impossible to defeat solo, duo, or even with a group (only applies to lowbies). For example, the Hole. With the new AI/mob types, undead are immune to stun, stun type mezzes, and crits. In the Hole, there are both undead paladins and enchanters. Enchanters can then mez us without any chance of us interrupting them, via spells, bash, or melee. They always succeed. paladins, with their massive manapool (for a 30 paladin, they can sure heal a lot, and stun), are so hard to kill. Granted, it's a dungeon, but bash/melee should interrupt any casting. It's not a matter of stunning them, as undead are immune to, but interrupting their incantation. I don't care how focused undead are, if you knock their hand when they are casting a spell, it's not going to go right.
Also, a suggestion. Make a silence type spell or a non-stun spell interrupt spell. the interrupt style doesn't work on these mobs (it's stun based and also not very frequent to interrupt a mez or heal by these mobs). Make like 15 seconds or so. This way, we can stop mobs from casting long enough to defeat them. (of course, this silence spell would be hard to balance, especially on which class(es) should have it.)
Manataps also are rather ineffective against these mobs. They have too much mana to sieve out, and in the hole no class gets a spell/song that destroys mana anyway. Even the 60 bard song, which does -220/tick for 3 ticks is hardly enough. Mobs regen mana quite fast.
Another suggestion I just had (damn this post is long) is to give wizards a spell that does damage to both mana and HP of a mob. (like destroy 25% of the mob's mana and do that much dmg to the mob. Ex: Mob has 4000 mana. Wiz destroys 1000 mana and does 1000 dmg to the mob, or make it a fixed amount)
Of course, I want everyone to know that I WANT this new AI. i want mobs to form groups and rogues to try to backstab us and mobs to patrol out in dungeons when players stay in the same spot for too long and mobs to run back for help sometimes (like in harder dungeons, I know there are already unsplittable mobs)
Okay, I'm done now. Let me know what you all think of this, or better yet, Wiz just implement it because it's such a fabulous idea of mine!
Also, a suggestion. Make a silence type spell or a non-stun spell interrupt spell. the interrupt style doesn't work on these mobs (it's stun based and also not very frequent to interrupt a mez or heal by these mobs). Make like 15 seconds or so. This way, we can stop mobs from casting long enough to defeat them. (of course, this silence spell would be hard to balance, especially on which class(es) should have it.)
Manataps also are rather ineffective against these mobs. They have too much mana to sieve out, and in the hole no class gets a spell/song that destroys mana anyway. Even the 60 bard song, which does -220/tick for 3 ticks is hardly enough. Mobs regen mana quite fast.
Another suggestion I just had (damn this post is long) is to give wizards a spell that does damage to both mana and HP of a mob. (like destroy 25% of the mob's mana and do that much dmg to the mob. Ex: Mob has 4000 mana. Wiz destroys 1000 mana and does 1000 dmg to the mob, or make it a fixed amount)
Of course, I want everyone to know that I WANT this new AI. i want mobs to form groups and rogues to try to backstab us and mobs to patrol out in dungeons when players stay in the same spot for too long and mobs to run back for help sometimes (like in harder dungeons, I know there are already unsplittable mobs)
Okay, I'm done now. Let me know what you all think of this, or better yet, Wiz just implement it because it's such a fabulous idea of mine!
zodium
Dalayan Elder
I think the main problem is that mobs are hardly interruptible.
So simply make the uninterruptable thing only apply to 59 and lower mobs. Your argument was always that if a mob had 50 players beating on it it would ALWAYS get interrupted, but that's not a concern on pre-60 mobs.
So simply make the uninterruptable thing only apply to 59 and lower mobs. Your argument was always that if a mob had 50 players beating on it it would ALWAYS get interrupted, but that's not a concern on pre-60 mobs.
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Melwin said:Wiz said:
Here's an idea: Make it so they have a reasonable chance to interrupt, given high level hastes and such. You ARE the coder after all, I know you can do this
But what's the point, really? If it's just a reasonable chance of interrupting based on dumb luck I might as well make them cast less.
zodium
Dalayan Elder
Wiz said:Melwin said:Wiz said:
Here's an idea: Make it so they have a reasonable chance to interrupt, given high level hastes and such. You ARE the coder after all, I know you can do this
But what's the point, really? If it's just a reasonable chance of interrupting based on dumb luck I might as well make them cast less.
If you wanna give soloers/duoers a chance (and I don't see why not), just make it so only the two people to first engage the mob can interrupt it. And decrease mob power since you increased AI. One of the reasons they're so high-powered compared to players of equal levels is to compensate for them being stupid as fuck.