Mining Vs Smithing

[Thraka]

Toon: Adayan
Class: Ranger
Level: 16

Smithing:62
Mining: 202

I realize you discussed this topic in thread: http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5753 thou it seemed to derail to parses and stat comparisons

But from my perspective, its a good idea implemented wrong. Why?

I strongly believe that I shouldn't be able to mine Dalium, Mithril ore from places such as surefall.

Not to mention the entire concept behind me having mass stacks of Dalium and Mithril laying in the bank that I can't use being based off my skill being so low.

The Only thing I can do to slowly build up my smithing past 62 as it currently stands is create silver medium weapons without spending a stupid amount of money.

I guess what im saying is:
Good Idea: Mining Ore in Surefall Glade
Bad Idea: Mining Superior Ore causing a mass inflation of supplies not being able to be used (Dalium+ quality)

This is just one example, I strongly believe that all ore shouldn't be able to be mined in one vein.

A suggestion in hopes to get this started in a different direction would be along the lines of Risk Vs Reward.

Locations of Ore.

Iron Ore=Surefall Glade
Copper Ore=Black Burrow+Steamfont
Silver Ore=Somewhere undead like, around level 20 (Id elaborate more but im new to this server and have no idea what the name/level of zones are here.)

This could also help the smiths work on ore to raise their current smithing skill as well as not "cockblock" the lower tier smiths attempting to get things such as Iron Ore.

I strongly hope you take this into deep consideration.

 

[SprintFun]

/agree

 

[i_ide]

aye Specific veins for specific ores would be nice

i couldn't agree more - something needs to be looked at here

 

[Darian Maliken]

I'm actually supprized that wasn't the case from the start since it makes a fair bit more sense, especially from the prespective of keeping higher skill leveled people from crowding out the lower level people in a zone.

 

[Tempus]

I'm actually supprized that wasn't the case from the start since it makes a fair bit more sense, especially from the prespective of keeping higher skill leveled people from crowding out the lower level people in a zone.

Are you serious? Do you not see that this is the way it is already. There is no reason for me to mine in zones like surefall, steamfont, faentharc or the long list of many others that do not yield anything better the mithril ore. The "Higher Skill Level" people already are restricted on which zones they can get ore in. And what you aren't considering is if someone wanted to take up mining for profit they could just go to the "Mithril Zone" and clear it out all the time and cock block you from the ore even more so then the "presumed" high levels ganking all the ore for low level places.

Not to mention the entire concept behind me having mass stacks of Dalium and Mithril laying in the bank that I can't use being based off my skill being so low.

The Only thing I can do to slowly build up my smithing past 62 as it currently stands is create silver medium weapons without spending a stupid amount of money.

You will use that ore, or you can sell it and use the cash to acclerate your smithing currently. No one said the cheapest way should be the fastest way to raise you skill level.

 

[Thraka]

I'm actually supprized that wasn't the case from the start since it makes a fair bit more sense, especially from the prespective of keeping higher skill leveled people from crowding out the lower level people in a zone.

Are you serious? Do you not see that this is the way it is already. There is no reason for me to mine in zones like surefall, steamfont, faentharc or the long list of many others that do not yield anything better the mithril ore. The "Higher Skill Level" people already are restricted on which zones they can get ore in. And what you aren't considering is if someone wanted to take up mining for profit they could just go to the "Mithril Zone" and clear it out all the time and cock block you from the ore even more so then the "presumed" high levels ganking all the ore for low level places.

Not to mention the entire concept behind me having mass stacks of Dalium and Mithril laying in the bank that I can't use being based off my skill being so low.

The Only thing I can do to slowly build up my smithing past 62 as it currently stands is create silver medium weapons without spending a stupid amount of money.

You will use that ore, or you can sell it and use the cash to acclerate your smithing currently. No one said the cheapest way should be the fastest way to raise you skill level.

You obviously don't understand the concept im going for here.

You have no idea how many veins go unused today because of these simple facts:

1) Too far away from a forge
2) Mobs guarding the mines
3) Why mine in a dungeon when you have Sundered Mountains and Surefall to farm

MielA is a prime example of this.

I don't want to call you a liar, but sir... you are talking out of your ass. "Higher Skill Level People" my mining has been 250 for over a week and im still having to farm silver ore in hopes of raising my skill. You obviously don't understand the basics of Supply Vs Demand either I see. You want to talk about inflation with prices? Try crafting Iron mastercraft weapons for profit, oh wait! You can't!!! Inflation has driven the prices of those down to at least 4-5plat a piece simply due to the fact that they drop off some NPCs, which is clearly less than what it costs to craft it.

Your arguement is the ideal fact that if you toss Mithril Ore Mines in a level 30-35 dungeon zone with a 2 hour 30minutesish timer will cause farmers to farm it for cash. Whats preventing the level 1s from doing that now sir? Oh wait... Nothing. Not to mention I have never seen so much Mithril and Dalium for sale since ive been playing than this week.

What you arent considering is the smiths that acually do smithing based on them needing the acual items crafted, not profit. The only ore that is restricted per veins right now is Ore such as Ghost Metal and Obsidian which shouldn't even be touched with a 10 foot poll until your skills around at least 170ish according to Wiki.

To dumb down your arguement for everyone you simply agree that farming Surefall and Sundered Mountains to a 180ish Skill in smithing is fine.

 

[Tempus]

I'm actually supprized that wasn't the case from the start since it makes a fair bit more sense, especially from the prespective of keeping higher skill leveled people from crowding out the lower level people in a zone.

Are you serious? Do you not see that this is the way it is already. There is no reason for me to mine in zones like surefall, steamfont, faentharc or the long list of many others that do not yield anything better the mithril ore. The "Higher Skill Level" people already are restricted on which zones they can get ore in. And what you aren't considering is if someone wanted to take up mining for profit they could just go to the "Mithril Zone" and clear it out all the time and cock block you from the ore even more so then the "presumed" high levels ganking all the ore for low level places.

Not to mention the entire concept behind me having mass stacks of Dalium and Mithril laying in the bank that I can't use being based off my skill being so low.

The Only thing I can do to slowly build up my smithing past 62 as it currently stands is create silver medium weapons without spending a stupid amount of money.

You will use that ore, or you can sell it and use the cash to acclerate your smithing currently. No one said the cheapest way should be the fastest way to raise you skill level.

You obviously don't understand the concept im going for here.

You have no idea how many veins go unused today because of these simple facts:

1) Too far away from a forge
2) Mobs guarding the mines
3) Why mine in a dungeon when you have Sundered Mountains and Surefall to farm

MielA is a prime example of this.

I don't want to call you a liar, but sir... you are talking out of your ass. "Higher Skill Level People" my mining has been 250 for over a week and im still having to farm silver ore in hopes of raising my skill. You obviously don't understand the basics of Supply Vs Demand either I see. You want to talk about inflation with prices? Try crafting Iron mastercraft weapons for profit, oh wait! You can't!!! Inflation has driven the prices of those down to at least 4-5plat a piece simply due to the fact that they drop off some NPCs, which is clearly less than what it costs to craft it.

Your arguement is the ideal fact that if you toss Mithril Ore Mines in a level 30-35 dungeon zone with a 2 hour 30minutesish timer will cause farmers to farm it for cash. Whats preventing the level 1s from doing that now sir? Oh wait... Nothing. Not to mention I have never seen so much Mithril and Dalium for sale since ive been playing than this week.

What you arent considering is the smiths that acually do smithing based on them needing the acual items crafted, not profit. The only ore that is restricted per veins right now is Ore such as Ghost Metal and Obsidian which shouldn't even be touched with a 10 foot poll until your skills around at least 170ish according to Wiki.

To dumb down your arguement for everyone you simply agree that farming Surefall and Sundered Mountains to a 180ish Skill in smithing is fine.

1. Warpmetal is zone resitrcted as well.
2. Deepmetal hasn't been found to my knowledge (but will be zone restricted)
3. Twisted Ore is dropped in PoT
4. My smithing is 178, and my mining is 250
5. You are quoting the blacksmithing wiki, which is pretty much all my information that I have added.
6. Iron items are designed to make you a big profit. Even the MC ones. They are basically worse then the dropped MC weapons.
7. Please don't attempt to "Dumb Down" anything I say. If I wanted to paraphrase myself I would have done it myself.
8. Every zone in the game with veins can yeild mithril, dalium, silver, copper and iron ore. And Wiz has already said that the current ratio of ore that is entering circulation is the way he wants it.
9. You do understand that the zone specific ore is extremely rare right, its not just an entire zone full of Warp or obsidian? The whole point of the current mining system is that you don't know where the good ore is. This prevents people form just taking the higher level ores and leaving only the lower level ones. Think of the lower level ore's as ph's for the higher level ones and you will understand better i think

 

[Thraka]

1. Warpmetal is zone resitrcted as well.
2. Deepmetal hasn't been found to my knowledge (but will be zone restricted)
3. Twisted Ore is dropped in PoT
4. My smithing is 178, and my mining is 250
5. You are quoting the blacksmithing wiki, which is pretty much all my information that I have added.
6. Iron items are designed to make you a big profit. Even the MC ones. They are basically worse then the dropped MC weapons.
7. Please don't attempt to "Dumb Down" anything I say. If I wanted to paraphrase myself I would have done it myself.
8. Every zone in the game with veins can yeild mithril, dalium, silver, copper and iron ore. And Wiz has already said that the current ratio of ore that is entering circulation is the way he wants it.
9. You do understand that the zone specific ore is extremely rare right, its not just an entire zone full of Warp or obsidian? The whole point of the current mining system is that you don't know where the good ore is. This prevents people form just taking the higher level ores and leaving only the lower level ones. Think of the lower level ore's as ph's for the higher level ones and you will understand better i think

So basically you decided to derail the discussion by discussing the types of rare ore and backing up my example being based off profit/inflation with smithing. I'm not sure exacly if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me, your thumbnails are confusing. Are you saying that Mithril and Dalium shouldn't be in the catagory of specific ores as well? Hell they may as well be they have a level requirement on the weapons(Mithril).



Let me ask you a question, do you think mining in Surefall and Sundered Mountains is ok up until your smithing skill is around 180?

 

[Tempus]

1. Warpmetal is zone resitrcted as well.
2. Deepmetal hasn't been found to my knowledge (but will be zone restricted)
3. Twisted Ore is dropped in PoT
4. My smithing is 178, and my mining is 250
5. You are quoting the blacksmithing wiki, which is pretty much all my information that I have added.
6. Iron items are designed to make you a big profit. Even the MC ones. They are basically worse then the dropped MC weapons.
7. Please don't attempt to "Dumb Down" anything I say. If I wanted to paraphrase myself I would have done it myself.
8. Every zone in the game with veins can yeild mithril, dalium, silver, copper and iron ore. And Wiz has already said that the current ratio of ore that is entering circulation is the way he wants it.
9. You do understand that the zone specific ore is extremely rare right, its not just an entire zone full of Warp or obsidian? The whole point of the current mining system is that you don't know where the good ore is. This prevents people form just taking the higher level ores and leaving only the lower level ones. Think of the lower level ore's as ph's for the higher level ones and you will understand better i think

So basically you decided to derail the discussion by discussing the types of rare ore and backing up my example being based off profit/inflation with smithing. I'm not sure exacly if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me, your thumbnails are confusing. Are you saying that Mithril and Dalium shouldn't be in the catagory of specific ores as well? Hell they may as well be they have a level requirement on the weapons(Mithril).



Let me ask you a question, do you think mining in Surefall and Sundered Mountains is ok up until your smithing skill is around 180?

Try mining Valley of Erimal, Faentharc, Steamfont, Underhill, mielech A, Great Divide until 180 there are plenty of veins. Oh and if you need Iron ore just kill the clockwork miners in steamfont they drop it. or used to at least. There is no way to cockblock someone who is gaining skill from iron, copper or silver because there is just too damnmuch of it out there. In fact I will trade you 2 to 1 my silver for your dalium and 3 to 1 my silver for your Mithril. I am sure any smith over a skill of 120 would do the same. If you are wanting a zone that you can go to to get Mithril Ore only or Dalium ore only then I can assure that will enver happen. There will always be various types of ore in every zone. Even the zones with warpmetal, ghostmetal and obsidian have iron, copper, silver, dalium and mithril ore in them. It would be unbalancing to have zones just filled with specific higher end ores. Not to mention it would require the over all number of veins in those zones to be drastically reduced and virtually eliminate the timesink portion of the smithing tradeskill. I do not support in anyway limiting each ore type to specific zones. That would roughly be the equivilant of the tailors requesting that there be a zone that only has grizzly bears in it because its not right to have them all intermingled with wolves and regular bears. How does them having a level requirement meant hey should be zone specific?

WTF are you talking about with this profit/infaltion crap?

 

[Thraka]

1. Warpmetal is zone resitrcted as well.
2. Deepmetal hasn't been found to my knowledge (but will be zone restricted)
3. Twisted Ore is dropped in PoT
4. My smithing is 178, and my mining is 250
5. You are quoting the blacksmithing wiki, which is pretty much all my information that I have added.
6. Iron items are designed to make you a big profit. Even the MC ones. They are basically worse then the dropped MC weapons.
7. Please don't attempt to "Dumb Down" anything I say. If I wanted to paraphrase myself I would have done it myself.
8. Every zone in the game with veins can yeild mithril, dalium, silver, copper and iron ore. And Wiz has already said that the current ratio of ore that is entering circulation is the way he wants it.
9. You do understand that the zone specific ore is extremely rare right, its not just an entire zone full of Warp or obsidian? The whole point of the current mining system is that you don't know where the good ore is. This prevents people form just taking the higher level ores and leaving only the lower level ones. Think of the lower level ore's as ph's for the higher level ones and you will understand better i think

So basically you decided to derail the discussion by discussing the types of rare ore and backing up my example being based off profit/inflation with smithing. I'm not sure exacly if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me, your thumbnails are confusing. Are you saying that Mithril and Dalium shouldn't be in the catagory of specific ores as well? Hell they may as well be they have a level requirement on the weapons(Mithril).



Let me ask you a question, do you think mining in Surefall and Sundered Mountains is ok up until your smithing skill is around 180?

Try mining Valley of Erimal, Faentharc, Steamfont, Underhill, mielech A, Great Divide until 180 there are plenty of veins.

Thats not my point, the point is you don't need to.

 

[Tempus]

1. Warpmetal is zone resitrcted as well.
2. Deepmetal hasn't been found to my knowledge (but will be zone restricted)
3. Twisted Ore is dropped in PoT
4. My smithing is 178, and my mining is 250
5. You are quoting the blacksmithing wiki, which is pretty much all my information that I have added.
6. Iron items are designed to make you a big profit. Even the MC ones. They are basically worse then the dropped MC weapons.
7. Please don't attempt to "Dumb Down" anything I say. If I wanted to paraphrase myself I would have done it myself.
8. Every zone in the game with veins can yeild mithril, dalium, silver, copper and iron ore. And Wiz has already said that the current ratio of ore that is entering circulation is the way he wants it.
9. You do understand that the zone specific ore is extremely rare right, its not just an entire zone full of Warp or obsidian? The whole point of the current mining system is that you don't know where the good ore is. This prevents people form just taking the higher level ores and leaving only the lower level ones. Think of the lower level ore's as ph's for the higher level ones and you will understand better i think

So basically you decided to derail the discussion by discussing the types of rare ore and backing up my example being based off profit/inflation with smithing. I'm not sure exacly if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me, your thumbnails are confusing. Are you saying that Mithril and Dalium shouldn't be in the catagory of specific ores as well? Hell they may as well be they have a level requirement on the weapons(Mithril).



Let me ask you a question, do you think mining in Surefall and Sundered Mountains is ok up until your smithing skill is around 180?

Try mining Valley of Erimal, Faentharc, Steamfont, Underhill, mielech A, Great Divide until 180 there are plenty of veins.

Thats not my point, the point is you don't need to.

What benefit does making all the ores zone specific create in your mind?

 

[Thraka]

What benefit does making all the ores zone specific create in your mind?

Um, progression? do you ignore my posts completely?

 

[Tempus]

And why is the current system bad?

Just because you can go to a skill of 180 by mining in one zone if you so choose?


It seems to me from your original post that you basically don't like having ore in your bank that you can't use yet and you would like to have more silver ore so you can raise your smithing skill as cheaply as possible.

So I offer you a solution in the status quo offer to trade your mithril and dalium ore for silver ore and problem solved. It doesn't require an over haul of the mining system.

Oh and if you think there is too much dalium or mithril around you are mistaken I can auction for two weeks to buy some and get maybe 3 stacks of each.

 

[Thraka]

And why is the current system bad?

Just because you can go to a skill of 180 by mining in one zone if you so choose?


It seems to me from your original post that you basically don't like having ore in your bank that you can't use yet and you would like to have more silver ore so you can raise your smithing skill as cheaply as possible.

So I offer you a solution in the status quo offer to trade your mithril and dalium ore for silver ore and problem solved. It doesn't require an over haul of the mining system.

And why is the current system bad?

Like I mentioned in my previous comments I think the current system is bad because its trivial and no risk involved at all. Not to mention if you really wanted to you could mine Mithril Ore at level 1.

It seems to me from your original post that you basically don't like having ore in your bank that you can't use yet and you would like to have more silver ore so you can raise your smithing skill as cheaply as possible.

I don't mind having ore in my bank, I think its just unorthodox to be able to mine ores such as Dalium and Mithril in the locations they are set at now in response to the level of ore im wishing to farm at the moment for skill gains.

So I offer you a solution in the status quo offer to trade your mithril and dalium ore for silver ore and problem solved. It doesn't require an over haul of the mining system.

Who says I'm not doing this? in fact you've bought the majority of my Dalium and Mithril personally. I just don't think it should be a crutch for something poorly implemented.

If you have any other reasonable questions I will be more than glad to give my opinion/two cents. Id prefer to keep this out of a repetitive rant/arguement.

BTW Log on right now and send adayan a tell I have 3 stacks of Mithril and 9 stacks of Dalium to sell you =P

 

[Tempus]

Like I mentioned in my previous comments I think the current system is bad because its trivial and no risk involved at all. Not to mention if you really wanted to you could mine Mithril Ore at level 1.

Hmm. Why is it bad that a level 1 can mine mithril ore? Are tradeskills suposed to inherently risky?

 

[Thraka]

Like I mentioned in my previous comments I think the current system is bad because its trivial and no risk involved at all. Not to mention if you really wanted to you could mine Mithril Ore at level 1.

Hmm. Why is it bad that a level 1 can mine mithril ore? Are tradeskills suposed to inherently risky?

Risk vs Reward. No risk<high reward.

 

[Slippers1]

That applies to gameplay, not to tradeskills.

 

[Tempus]

The "Risk" factor of tradeskills is the time involved. It is not easy to master a tradeskill in the status quo.

 

[Thraka]

That applies to gameplay, not to tradeskills.

Here it does; in any other MMO ive played, may-it-be Ultima Online, EQLive (Before POK), World of Warcraft it hasn't.

And if it wasn't ment to be that way here than the developer screwed up by placing a level requirement on mithril weapons (Thus being level 25)

Which in my perspective just seems like a bandaid they put on. What I truly don't understand is the fact that mithril Weapons have a requirement yet the Armor doesn't. **Note** this doesn't effect me for im level 27 at the moment.

Basically What it waters down to is if the item developer wished to make tradeskills time investment vs reward than take the level requirement out of mithril completely, otherwise that wasn't the way mining was intended if it was, it was poorly implemented. Get it?

Straight up though, I could give two shits about what happens with the tradeskill in general since this MMO is free. Although it was just a suggestion in hopes to better improve the gameplay as well as adding depth to the game.

You've heard my arguements I think ive argued every possible extreme of this debate/suggestion.

 

[Eredhel]

"And if it wasn't ment to be that way here than the developer screwed up by placing a level requirement on mithril weapons (Thus being level 25)"

Is this a ratio thing that was done automatically with the script for all weapons? Aside from that, it's time vs reward for the crafter, not the buyer.