Mana Regen. annnnnd..... rambling.

Hi,

Can I make a suggestion please? The mana regen nerf was in response to the infinite mana of a CH chain. However, the change made affects *everyone's* mana regen while in combat. My suggestion is to have this nerf only *activate* when there are 2 or more CH'ers on a tank's "CH" list, and only affect those currently CH'ing the tank.

Nerfing everyone's mana presents a few problems that come to mind:
1. Makes it harder for kiting classes who rely on regenning mana while running around with the mob.

2. Shadowknights and Paladins can't cast hate spells and lifetaps nearly as often now when tanking.

3. Those encounters where enchanters need to mez several adds (e.g. 8 or so), will be much more difficult for the enchanters to keep them mezzed for extended periods of time.

4. Wizards and other nukers will have less mana to nuke with on raid encounters.

5. Druids, shaman, clerics wont' be able to pad/ch heal rampage tanks/rogues nearly as much. Btw, Treanna (and I belive Foonie also) were on the low end of mana by the end of the 16 person Zirvane fight healing 2 rampage tanks/rogues. This also affects healers ability to heal offtanks.

Those are just a few examples of the scope of this problem.

I believe it can be coded, somehow, to where the mana regen nerf would only affect those CH'ers while in a CH chain. Afterall, this is the only concern, not everyone's mana regen. (Or maybe it can't be coded like that, I don't know all the details of the EQ client/server architecture). But something needs to be done.

Hugs,
Leanna
 
I must agree there Leanna. I think since this problem was clerics having infinate mana, the problem shouldn't be fixed by changing every mana using class. Perhaps finding some way to limit this to CHers would be more appropriate? (If that is possible)
 
There's a few other concerns this addresses as well, mostly healed-related ones and what a healer/melee can duo. It wouldn't really work to just tack this on healers, so the simplest way seems to be to keep it as it is now.

I don't quite it'll be quite as terrible as you predict, and in regards to mezzing, mezzed mobs don't count towards aggro distraction.
 
Regarding mez and mana regen. It only takes being on one hate list to cut the mana regen in half. With all the mez wearing off and perhaps an enc tashing the main boss mob (which tank is fighting), 95 percnet of time enchanter will be on a hate list and not get the mana.

Btw, I died earlier today because I couldn't regen mana fast enough to remez a mob. And my druid can no longer heal my pet for me because she runs out of mana too soon. FYI.

Leanna
 
Obviously many people have problems with this new mana regening thing and it seems they have some valid reasoning. Personally I think this dicision was made a lil to fast and not enough thought or trials. I think your problem is in the NPC's not the mana regen. Maybe make harder mobs? Lord Zirvea or w/e, hits for like 900's and they also had the 2 best DPS's in the game, vero and ponden. I do agree with you Wiz something needs to be done... But i honestly and truly don't think this mana regen implement is it.... ~.~
 
I think the nerfs were necessary for raids, but the general effects of it are completely devastating. When a fully buffed group (that is to say Relic Aego, Panther, Tarhansar, Glory, Relic Focus and Channeler on Icar) of Coltaine, Vero, Corlo, Icarium, Podge and Elitra can't sustain their mana against regular Fire Grotto imps and have to take semi-regular breaks, I don't even want to think about what a "regular" group of expers would have to.
 
OK. I've spent some time thinking over this, and come up with a possible alternative solution:

1) AAs always work fully.
2) Spell regen capped at 30 while fighting, but not halved. (Out-of-combat cap is 60)
2) FT capped at 15 while fighting, but not halved. (Out-of-combat cap is 25)

Essentially this limits how efficent your mana spells will be in the heat of combat (accomplishing the same as the halving change), but unless you have Bard + Enchanter + Druid available you should be going by just as fine as before the patch.

Thoughts?
 
So while you're on the aggro list you can receive 30 mana a tick regen from spells and song and 15 a tick from flowing thought for a total of 45 a tick? You can still have mental clarity 3 since it is an AA right? Making it 48 total if you get that AA.

Ok, but if you are getting 17 from JB, 8 from WON, and 6 from Spiritual how much is that leaving over to receive from bards?
None? Since that is already 31 points of spell regen and lceas and High Priests Bulwark havent even been factored yet.


And it appears that *SLOW* is broken.... :roll:
 
I just wanted to pipe in for a second, haven't said anything yet about the whole mana regen because I didn't have to deal with it, but last night I did.

I was grouping last night with a normal exp group in Kaladim (paladin, shaman, rogue, enchanter, and shadowknight), and my shaman couldn't keep the shadowknight healed because of the nerf. I was completely able to do this before. I would normally have clarity, and the summoned FT3 staff. My mana would be almost always near the 70% mark by the end of the fight, but now it's down to about 13% where I can't even get one Gheal off. This kind of screwed me over for a large portion of the night because a lot of it was spent medding after battle, rebuffing (which is horrible now with the mana nerf).

2. Shadowknights and Paladins can't cast hate spells and lifetaps nearly as often now when tanking.
Click to expand...

This is in fact true. I couldn't use yaulp, flash of light, cease (lvl 9 stun) and desist (lvl 15 stun) with clarity during 1 fight without going OOM. That's a little ridiculous wouldn't you think? Also keep in mind that these spells are low mana spells that are being used by a lvl 29 paladin...

The only thing that came out of this whole thing, is how quickly mana regened AFTER battle, which isn't all that useful, if a few people are dead because you can't keep up with heals DURING battle.

1) AAs always work fully.
2) Spell regen capped at 30 while fighting, but not halved. (Out-of-combat cap is 60)
2) FT capped at 15 while fighting, but not halved. (Out-of-combat cap is 25)
Click to expand...

Wiz, I love this suggestion because it will only work on the raid/upper end groups who have their buff windows filled and have loads of FT items/spells on them. Normal experience groups (below 60, not sure about this since I'm still only 37) will not be affected in any way.

Please implement this instead, it sounds much better than halving all mana regen during battle.
 
Duma - yes, this will mean that bard mana song is useless in combat if you have plenty of mana regen buffs. That's okay, bards as a mana battery is a lame idea anyways. They'll get something to compensate. (Symphonies). I think this is a preferable solution to crippling everyone without a bard though.

As it's looking right now, these are the full extent of changes:

1) Shape of Chan changed from mana cons to 15% increase healing.
2) Meditation will be done at normal (pre-patch) rate in combat and double (post-patch) rate out of combat.
3) Spell regen capped at 30 in combat.
4) FT capped at 15 in combat.
5) Caps/mods removed from the scant few AA mana regen points.

This will hit the intended target which is raids. I won't shed too many tears that the people with 98.55 permas also get hit if they group with a bard.
 
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