Mage Class Development

M

MurphysLaw

Dalayan Beginner
Mages don't have much going for them right now 1-60. If you want to be a pet class or a soloing class, beastlords and necros are a better choice. If you want to be a nuking class, why not wizard or druid? Mages have only one ability that pulls them out of the crowd: Summoned items.

I see two potential "reasons" for giving Mages summoned items: Either they're meant to be player gear or pet gear. The problem is, they're worthless at both these roles. I get better pet gear at level 1 (halberds?) than Staff of Tracing 7 levels later, and this trend continues for most of my Mage's leveling career. I love Adepts and the other changes added to improve itemization through the developing (1-60) levels, but no one has bothered to buff Mage summoned items accordingly. It seems like it would be a really easy fix to just add a bit of +cha to the caster gear and +sta to the warrior gear, and make Mages masters of something other than gem summoning, so I can't figure out why these changes haven't been implemented already.

I'd like others' perspectives on whether leveling Mage problems would be solved by these changes, and if there are better solutions.
 
MurphysLaw said:
Mages don't have much going for them right now 1-60. If you want to be a pet class or a soloing class, beastlords and necros are a better choice. If you want to be a nuking class, why not wizard or druid? Mages have only one ability that pulls them out of the crowd: Summoned items.

I see two potential "reasons" for giving Mages summoned items: Either they're meant to be player gear or pet gear. The problem is, they're worthless at both these roles. I get better pet gear at level 1 (25/55? 1hs') than Staff of Tracing 7 levels later, and this trend continues for most of my Mage's leveling career. I love Adepts and the other changes added to improve itemization through the developing (1-60) levels, but no one has bothered to buff Mage summoned items accordingly. It seems like it would be a really easy fix to just add a bit of +cha to the caster gear and +sta to the warrior gear, and make Mages masters of something other than gem summoning, so I can't figure out why these changes haven't been implemented already.

I'd like others' perspectives on whether leveling Mage problems would be solved by these changes, and if there are better solutions.
Click to expand...

My perspective is that you post the actual current stats of the items you want to see changed, the level of the spell that makes them, and what you would like them to be changed to. Couple this with some pretty solid factual data and you might see smeone take interest. What it all boils down to is make detailed suggestions that are well thought out and well supported and people will take you seriously. Make a general blanket claim with little hard data like above and most peopl will just pass right over it.
 
I was just trying to hit the balance suggested in the sticky of "not too broad, but not too specific." I wasn't suggesting specific changes, I was asking if other people agreed there was a problem, and if it is being addressed, first. As to data, the question is mostly directed at mods or people with mage experience, so I presume they're already familiar with their class' spells. Sorry if you don't like my phrasing, but hopefully you understand the question I'm asking.

Whoops! Thought this was balancing discussion
 
MurphysLaw said:
I was just trying to hit the balance suggested in the sticky of "not too broad, but not too specific." [...]
Click to expand...

There is no such rule in a sticky on this forum, you need to have a more specific suggestion and data you feel is relevent for this forum.
 
Mages are freaking sexy from 1-50 IIRC. Their soloability is excellent and they're also a great group addition with damage shields, pets, and nukes. Summoned items are mostly for convenience, and no-cost pet weapons are a great joy with their procs. I never noticed my pet doing more damage with some high damage, crappy delay 2-hand weapon, but I did notice that pet procs helped it get aggro when soloing and did some damage too. Sure, mages aren't too specialized 1-60, but the whole package is quite nice. Lastly, their DS is great throughout those levels and they can root/slow/stun with their pets if that's needed in the group.

If anything, mages might be a bit overpowered for some of 1-50.
 
This is probably relevant to your first concern. Found in the tome of knowledge 'http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/forum/index.php?topic=8425.0'
TEH WIZ said:
PETS

ALL pets can use armor on ALL slots
Pets have a fixed delay
pets have a set amount of attacks so making it wield two weapons is only good for increasing its amount of procs.
Pets do not becomes rogues, wizards, etc. Water pet slows, fire pet does the most damage (even ds excluded), air pet stuns, earth pet roots. Fire is lowest hp, water and air identical in middle, earth highest.
Pets have their own resists. Fire pets are resistant to fire, etc.
Magician Water pet slow is fixed at 25%.

Charmed pets have a max of 50% haste.
Click to expand...

My experience with a necro pet from 1-65+, and a brother who played a mage from 1-65+, was that pets pretty much had set damage they could do, no matter what weapon they had, to the point where now we tend to use summoned daggers to outfit our pets due to superior resist stats. The halberd is doing nothing for your Mage pet. Zero. Only the stats and proc on a weapon matter, and thought its been awhile since I've looked at low end mage summon items, most all of them have stats of some kind, making them pretty much better until you find mastercrafted weapons or above on trash mobs. Once you get the weapons that proc rune (staff of runes being the first one if I recall) thats probably all you'll want to be using.


Neebos said:
mages can't root till 62
Click to expand...

He said with thier pets. Mages earth pet can root from level 4 onwards. A bit of micro management, and its far more reliable and alot quicker than, say, a wizards root (the earth pet will always open up with it as he rushes in). Don't underestimate the other pets too


Probably some of the summoned gear could use some looking at, some of it is damn fine as is, unless you are twinked greatly. The staffs with the flowing thought come to mind as being somewhat too good. I'll have to go with others on this one though, and say 'Please post the stats on the items themselves and what you think is wrong with them'. Can't be expected to remember every item all the time.
 
Zaknafean said:
The halberd is doing nothing for your Mage pet. Zero.


Probably some of the summoned gear could use some looking at, some of it is damn fine as is, unless you are twinked greatly. The staffs with the flowing thought come to mind as being somewhat too good. I'll have to go with others on this one though, and say 'Please post the stats on the items themselves and what you think is wrong with them'. Can't be expected to remember every item all the time.
Click to expand...

That first statement just isn't accurate. Make a Mage and give it a shot. Pet goes from hitting for 5ish dmg with fists to 25ish at the same speed. With a fixed delay, a lot of the weapons we consider "balanced" because they've got high damage+high delay become more powerful in pet hands, much more so than most of the early summons. I'd much rather have a pet hitting for 2-3x the damage than the occasional rune proc (the proc rate isn't anything amazing, but I haven't parsed it). Anyway, this was supposed to be a Balancing Discussion thread, I'll update it with some actual data so it fits S&R.
 
MurphysLaw said:
That first statement just isn't accurate. Make a Mage and give it a shot. Pet goes from hitting for 5ish dmg with fists to 25ish at the same speed. With a fixed delay, a lot of the weapons we consider "balanced" because they've got high damage+high delay become more powerful in pet hands, much more so than most of the early summons. I'd much rather have a pet hitting for 2-3x the damage than the occasional rune proc (the proc rate isn't anything amazing, but I haven't parsed it). Anyway, this was supposed to be a Balancing Discussion thread, I'll update it with some actual data so it fits S&R.
Click to expand...

BD threads are started by staffers only when people prove that there is something actually amiss in the game. If I were you I would post the name, spell level, and FULL stats on any items you feel are lacking and back up why you think they should be adjusted with more than "I think it shoud be this way".
 
LOL I thought that was funny as well.

Earth Pet for CC sucks... its really only good for tight area's were you really don't have room to move around and are afraid your pet might lose aggro.

If a mage wants to CC use your Monster Summonings they work a 100 times better at CC.
 
Not that its a position that I need to defend, but...

Zaknafean said:
He said with thier pets. Mages earth pet can root from level 4 onwards. A bit of micro management, and its far more reliable and alot quicker than, say, a wizards root (the earth pet will always open up with it as he rushes in).
Click to expand...

Didn't say the CC. I said in the right circumstances, its more useful then a wizard rooting. For example hold the mob with root, back off your pet, get ready to cast a nuke, nuke lands, and you send your pet back in to reroot. A wizard may need to take a couple hits to re-root, depending on the situation and where you are fighting. The mage would not need too.

I'll definitely atest to the sure awesome that is Orc and Cyclops CC in most exp zones. People shouldn't underestimate them.

Now to make that lowbie mage and see if what Murphy said about weapon damage is true...
 
So ya, I was definitely completely wrong on the weapons not affecting damage comment. Not even a contest. The normal Halbred definitive more than doubled my level 4 air elementals damage raising max him from 9 to around 23 in the small sample I ran, while the staff of tracing raised his max hit from 9 to 10 on the mobs I was testing. So my 'observations' before are certainly proven false.
 
weapon damage only helps pet damage when the weapon does more damage than the pet would

a halberd isnt a big deal for a level 24 pet but its a huge help for a level 4 one
 
If anything out of this thread, A good point is the Pet weapons.


Personally i'd like to see the XXX of Power weapons Moved to NONE-NONE on the weapons and improve the HP on them, Too something say 150 or 200hp.. Give the pet a little more aoe Survivability besides AA Barrier. Lately Trash pulls in raid zones have been ass raping my pet with chain 200-400 DD's.. I can't ask a druid or clr to stop main healing to help me keep him up, And those little DD's take em down FAST
 
I have to say I missed the Summon Belt and weapons mages got at higher levels.

I like how the XXX of Power weapons are flexable and not just Pet only. I know once you get to a certain point toons won't need XXX of Power weapons anymore and they do become pet only. But its still a nice option to have earlyer on.

I could see a Pet Only weapon however being added, specialy since Rune Sword is basicly all you use for a very very very long time. (And the Dagger if you want resists).

Always thought mages could use something in thier late 40s early 50s for summon pet gear.
 
thats my main idea yea, but i thought Gift type spells might be too much (gift line of spells summoned 2 swords, a belt, and some other pet item)


It would certainly be nice i agree.
 
Various ideas, not all are gold but some are nice ---



I could see adding a 2nd type of DS to mages. Short term stacking DS for 5 hp (lvl 40), 8 (lvl 52), 10 (lvl 64 or Ancient) 13 (Relic with double duraction) with durations in the range of 10-15 minutes. I would think that the recast on this would be as long as the duration to avoid over-use. This stacking DS could have SV Cold or magic to carry through with the theme of the regular DS. This still keeps mage DS below druid, but it does increase the desire of having a mage in conjunction with a druid rather than replaced by.

Could make the rain spells crit as often as regular nukes do again. I had always thought of them as the "efficient" DPS for mages and very situational.

If you wanted pet weapons to be none/none, rather than add 200 HP there could be +100 all saves. That would offer more protection from AEs than HP. Or even give relic pets an innate chance to dodge AE spells (say 25% for instance).

Could have summoned items with various useful effect bundled. Perhaps the lev ring could have see invis added to the levitate. Convienient without unbalancing.

Addition of a single charge lore low cast time invis stone.

Could add "package" spells. Summon a 10 slot (Lore) bag with a stack of stat food/drink, mod rod, lev ring, stack of peridots, searfire, 2 stack of arrows, deepshard, invis stone(see above), haste ring. Obviously this would be a high level spell. Probably use a pearl and also probable it would need tweaked. Could have 2 version, caster and then melee at high levels. Could have lower version also.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom