Listsold Systemic Flaws

Haenir

Haenir

Dalayan Master
This is basically what I wish the listsold system would allow:
  1. Let me feel like I'm getting a fair price when I buy/sell items
  2. Let me easily know who is buying what
  3. Let me sell things quickly
  4. Let me easily know what is available to buy
  5. Let me buy things quickly
  6. Let me do all this with minimal effort
The current implementation of the listsold system fails pretty miserably at every one of these.

I'm deliberately ignoring other aspects of the economy and focusing on structural issues with listsold. (So no "Charms are the root of all economic problems" follow up posts please, that is a whole 'nother topic.)

That said, here are some ideas to fix listsold:

(1) Bi-directional trading -- addresses issues 1,2,3
The basic idea would be to allow players to place purchase orders which other players could see and choose to fulfill. Implemented correctly, this would allow groups looking to quickly sell items for splits to players rather than NPCs. Economically, it would force prices closer to their real costs (both in terms of actual value to buyers and opportunity cost of sellers).

(2) Search by item -- addresses issues 1,2,4,6
Sometimes I browse listsold for deals. But most of the time I'm looking for something very specific, and doing /cm listsold next 50 times in hopes of seeing it is plain aggravating. Hell, I would spend plat (hello dynamic plat sink) to be able to hail an NPC and have it give me a list of names/prices for a given item. Not only would this make finding items you're looking for less painful, it would also allow for easier price comparison (forcing competition).

(3) Listing fees -- addresses issues 1
Currently the only plat cost of the listsold system comes when an item is sold (and generally gets passed on to the buyer through higher prices). Listing fees would force prices closer to their real costs (both in terms of actual value to buyers and opportunity cost of sellers). It would also keep arbitrage to a minimum (which would be a problem generated by implementing the first two ideas).

(4) Remove 10 second delay between listbuys -- addresses issues 5
The 10 second delay between buying listed items is super aggravating when you're buying items en masse from someone. Why is it even a thing?

(5) Transaction history -- addresses issues 1
Being able to see what price/quantity items have been sold in the past ~year would greatly improve player ability to gauge the fairness of a listprice
 
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Haenir said:
(2) Search by item -- addresses issues 1,2,4,6
Sometimes I browse listsold for deals. But most of the time I'm looking for something very specific, and doing /cm listsold next 50 times in hopes of seeing it is plain aggravating. Hell, I would spend plat (hello dynamic plat sink) to be able to hail an NPC and have it give me a list of names/prices for a given item. Not only would this make finding items you're looking for less painful, it would also allow for easier price comparison (forcing competition).
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This isn't put in game because then people would just start undercutting the previous person that is selling the item by 1 plat. Also Wiz specifically wanted it to be like this.
 
wiz also wanted to not share and took us off eqemus listing, so take his vision with a grain of salt
 
Nebi said:
This isn't put in game because then people would just start undercutting the previous person that is selling the item by 1 plat.
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This is a good thing? It would push prices down closer to realistic values. And this already happens? I know I already check to see who else is selling an item I want to sell on listsold and list it just below them.

Nebi said:
Also Wiz specifically wanted it to be like this.
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What Wiz wanted 10 years ago may not be what he would want today, neither is it necessarily what the current administration wants nor what the server actually needs.
 
Also makes it harder for an individual to buy all of a thing and mark it up 300% or w/e. I'm sure it still happens in the current system but not as much as it would if you could just search them all.
 
Haenir said:
This is arbitrage, and mostly preventable by making listing actually have a real cost to the person listing things.
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I kind the theory of the idea of being able to search on listsold while having a cost to LIST the item as kind of an offset. But at the end of the day, I think having a cost to list an item will just lead to less people using the listsold system and more vendoring. Maybe there's a balance in there that works...

I always thought the listsold system was supposed to be an imitation of the throwback feel of /auc everything in EC tunnels.
 
Pecannius said:
But at the end of the day, I think having a cost to list an item will just lead to less people using the listsold system and more vendoring. Maybe there's a balance in there that works...
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To do it right you'd probably have to (1) reduce vendoring prices on many items so that the opportunity costs of listing items vs. vendoring end up favoring listing and (2) shift some of the plat sink from charms to this. Oops, broke my own rule.
 
to be honest with you there are so little vendors now that this doesnt seem like its a huge problem to begin with. i would much rather be able to search listsolds of people who are no longer on the list sold system. you could find some hidden gems on prices of things that were of yesteryear.
 
Nebi said:
to be honest with you there are so little vendors now that this doesnt seem like its a huge problem to begin with.
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Chicken and egg problem -- lack of vendors is at least partially due to the asinine structure of listsold.

Nebi said:
i would much rather be able to search listsolds of people who are no longer on the list sold system.
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I know at least one person who is doing exactly that and making plat hand over fist.
 
Long ago vendor prices sucked majorly. At some point in the last five years or so prices for selling to vendor went up. I would say that is one of the roots. Why sell for a little more when you can have that much now?
 
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