Level 20-49 adepts - people availability?

B

Bernat

Dalayan Beginner
Hi, I've been trying to form a lvl 43 adept lately, and I've only been successful two times over probably 1 or 2 months. Both times we were 12 (max numbers, afaik).

On our first raid, we killed it on our second try. We had like 2 clerics, 1 shaman and 1 druid, and the warrior tank was kinda twinked. On our second raid, we wiped on our first try, and some people left, so we wiped again on second try with 10 people. I didn't have time for a second try.


So what is the purpose of this post? Well, I'ld like to see if other people are having problems gathering people for lvl 20-49 adepts or killing it with a pick-up raid of 1-3 lvls lower. I wouldn't mind finding what devs think about it so I can post a formal suggestions and request post.

What I have in mind is making adepts a 6-man raid (except for famous lvl 57 adepts ;P) or reducing difficulty a bit so that 9 max level chars can drop it or 12 people 1-3 lvls lower can even if they're not the perfect parties.


Thanks for your input!
 
What I find is that there are usually 8-12 people on for each of these adept ranges. However it's hard to get a majority of those people to come.

6-man Adepts make me think 3-man twinked kills. Perhaps 9-man adepts that can be done with an extremely well equipped 6.

I don't think they need to be much easier, just maybe knock off the need for 1-2 people.
 
For the most part the only adept attempted on a regular basis is Traekoth at 57 (and usually failed). Gathering people for the other adepts is just too hard most times. There's such a tight level range on how useful people are (3 or 4 levels at most for the most part) that it's hard to find 12 people within that narrow level range.

It's not always easy to get a group in this game, so people are probably less likely to leave their exp group for a pick up raid that has a good chance of wiping and leaving them with exp debt. There have been several times that I have been in a group and saw an /ooc for an adept raid that I could join, but I didn't because I had finally got a group.

What I think are two of the biggest reasons it's hard to take on the lower level adepts.
 
One of the biggest problems I've noticed is this : Adepts require a greater degree of knowledge than going to MielB and destroying everything in your path.

Probably the best reason that Traekoth is no longer killed regularly is because Szerak left. And Szerak knew EXACTLY how to beat Traekoth. He knew how to lead the raid, how to organize his team, what classes were necessary, and EXACTLY what Traek did. Szerak knew his shit like no other when it came to Traekoth. Now he's gone and nobody has stepped up with the kind of knowledge and skill that he had.

But Traekoth is unique. Traekoth is the one adept that most people will stop grinding for. Nobody I know stops on a dime for the Haunted Treant. Which means that instead of having people who are ready and willing to drop Traek, you have a gang of people who probably only vaguely want to be there and really don't usually know what they're doing.

What this means is that most people who hit an adept in the early 20s - late 40s range have likely never done it before. Including the leader of the raid. Nobody likes raiding with people who don't know what they're doing. It's a big circle. Nobody does the raids because nobody has experience with the adept. Nobody has experience with the adept because nobody goes to the adept raids.
 
Ykari07 said:
One of the biggest problems I've noticed is this : Adepts require a greater degree of knowledge than going to MielB and destroying everything in your path.

Probably the best reason that Traekoth is no longer killed regularly is because Szerak left. And Szerak knew EXACTLY how to beat Traekoth. He knew how to lead the raid, how to organize his team, what classes were necessary, and EXACTLY what Traek did. Szerak knew his shit like no other when it came to Traekoth. Now he's gone and nobody has stepped up with the kind of knowledge and skill that he had.

But Traekoth is unique. Traekoth is the one adept that most people will stop grinding for. Nobody I know stops on a dime for the Haunted Treant. Which means that instead of having people who are ready and willing to drop Traek, you have a gang of people who probably only vaguely want to be there and really don't usually know what they're doing.

What this means is that most people who hit an adept in the early 20s - late 40s range have likely never done it before. Including the leader of the raid. Nobody likes raiding with people who don't know what they're doing. It's a big circle. Nobody does the raids because nobody has experience with the adept. Nobody has experience with the adept because nobody goes to the adept raids.
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Well put. This is pretty much spot on. Also, those people who try an adept at lvl 9 or lvl 20 and fail, they're less likely to go through that again. It's a lot of time to get that going usually.

The other thing about Traek is this: I honestly believe that it's nearly impossible to beat him with just 12 level 55-57's. You need people who are 55-57 with AA's or people who are 55-57 with gear above their tier (and probably a little of both). Hence why people lock at 57 to fight him. It's pretty much a necessity to not go in with base stats and tier-appropriate gear.
 
Along with Traek diff, you then have the other 57 adept, pounders that need even more AAs and better geared toons for totaly subpar gear thats not even worth it.

We use ot hit Traek then do pounders only for the novality of killing boht adepts in one night, not because anyone there could use any of the loot off the pounders.

Honestly would rather see the pounders totaly revamp on gear and turned into a 63 level adept (Max Engage 60).
The other adepts I agree could use some toneing down, to make them more friendly for pick up raids, lets face it No guild other then a low level one is going to both orginzeing a raid on these adepts so you will always have a pick up raid style.

I think gearing the adepts for a 9 toon instead of 12 would be a vast improvment. Gear for 9 apporpately gear toons of the correct level. Or 12 toons not the correct level (1-3 levels off) sub par gear, or the 6 man Twink group.

Lets face it, we should't be worryed about twinks on these lower level adepts, why? Simplely this.. a twink isn't going to care about the loot off the lower level adepts. If you get a twink to even raid one of these adepts it would be the odd 1 or 2 hardly raid trivalizeing. Yes you could have a group of uber twinks 6 man plow a adept over but who cares? most adepts are up 95% of the time due to not being killed. If a 6 man group of twinks wants to have a little fun and run over a adept its not going to effect anyone.
 
I agree with Kirin on the point about twinks. The adepts are prettymuch going to waste-- why is it such a big problem if they're killed with three?

I don't really agree with changing the cap to 9 simply because groups are multiples of 6, though. I don't have a problem with making encounters pretty trivial with 12-- a lot are anyway-- but 9 is a pretty odd number of people.

Why not add more adepts? Or increase the value of their gear into later levels to have more people hit them?
 
He didn't say to change the cap to 9, he was talking about lowering the difficulty of the encounters so that they can routinely be done with only 9. 12 can still kill them given his idea...

Slow down and be sure to read completely before rushing to respond.
 
okay, i've been doing adetps for like, 7 months, i've farmed nearly all of them like 10x each, they are NOT too hard, if ANYTHING they are too easy. just last night, i downed redmaw, and tarax, a raid which i assmeled in 15 minteus with my friend, 9 people overall, only 1 max lvl, and we dind't wipe once. So tbh i have no idea what you're talking about, they are infe as is
 
oh, and P.S. i've exp locked for every adept...but thats just cuase i'm cool like that :toot:
 
Bernat said:
I'd like to see if other people are having problems gathering people for lvl 20-49 adepts or killing it with a pick-up raid of 1-3 lvls lower. I wouldn't mind finding what devs think about it so I can post a formal suggestions and request post.
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My friend and I have organized countless raids on adepts from the Fleshflower to Redmaw over the last month. We have had problems forming a raid maybe one day out of seven -- the other six days are no sweat. We've even explocked in order to lead more and more raids, always getting a mix of old adept vets we've raided with before and some new faces. Without any twinking, we've taken down adepts with an average raid level 2 levels lower, and if you ask me you shouldn't be able to easily take out the Fleshflower with 6 level 20's, or Redmaw with 8 level 33's.

Not a single adept from Rabb to Redmaw should be made any more easy. Why? Because every single one is already doable with 9 or 10 untwinked people.


EDIT: On a side note, is Sludgebreath still in the game?
 
Well first of all, Tarx is probably the easiest adept ever. I mean... ever. He's got the hp of a wounded rat. And Lev pretty much destroys the entire point of his AE. Redmaw's a straight fight. The only rough part is the underwater bit. And even a twink will stop for Redmaw because of the range item he drops. It's a damn nice item. You can't say adepts are too easy then describe one of the easiest adepts and one of the least complicated.
 
You clearly missed the part of me saying iv'e done nearly every adept 10x + each (sludgebreath mia though)

treant done him with 8, hes cake, sandjaw, done him with 8, come to think of it, traek/pounders are the only ones that need a full raid it seems as is...on a side note i have also never done the 52 adept, from what i hear he's impossible...maybe HE alone needs some looking into....

and just be honest here...killing most these adepts are easier than grouping in paw, so seriously, there is no chance they are too hard
 
I question how "twink" any toon is that exp lock for the adepts. If they really are un twink toons, then 2 things come to mind. Your ether a vetran player doing it all over for fun (but your still bringing a lot of experience to the raid) or your a first timmer and crazy enough to exp lock.

if your farming adepts like you said then you by default have gear out of your level range (since adept gear is a few levels over what should normaly be gotten at there level).

Folks that Exp Lock by default are almost always twinked for there level simple because they keep killing the same level range mobs gaining loot that doesn't need to be used on upgrades due to there level (recommend, spells etc) they instead keep upgrading the loot that is in their level range to a point were a normal person of there level wouldn't have that kind of gear yet.

And honestly the 1-36 range adepts dont nearly have the same issues at the 42+ ones. Whens the last time someone took down tidefang? or the Commander in Mielb seriously? Even people that are vetran raiders will swear up and down a tree after dealing with Tidefang who simply put a Bitch at that level.

We can argue about the lower adepts.. but starting with Tidefang (42 level engage) up I think most of them could use some looking into on there diff. Traek I have mixed feelings on about weather or not hes on par for his diff.
 
Hardest adepts IMO (or trickiest, or least intuitive): Angar, Flitterwing, and The Wind Hag. None of these need to be made any easier. The Wind Hag was brought down to 2%, first try, by 8 non-twinks -- second try we brought in another non-twink dps, and with a grand total of 9 people she was brought down. Angar is intimidating with the HT, disease based DD, and lifetaps -- but absolutely doable with 2 clerics (or 1 cleric + 2 druids), a tank, and 3 or 4 normally equipped DPS. Bring in a slower/debuffer, and it's over. Flitterwing...that endless food pouch truly lasts forever (+5 cha food cannot be tradeskilled, right?), and coming up with a real strategy instead of just hacking and slashing in order to earn a reward like that seems fair to me.

Also:
Rabb is soloable by a twink
Grikk is soloable by a twink (monk with Recovery IX or some crap...)
BQ and MS doable with 5 + 1 twink, or a straight 7 decently equipped non-twinks
Brancu doable with 6 non twinks
Fleshflower doable with 6-8
Spectral Hunter -- okay, another tough one, doable with 9 though
Huntfang -- doable with 9
Goretusk -- done by 6 regularly equipped 26's, 1 twinked 26 cleric, and a single 30 wizard pulling 105 cha and 900 mana or something
Haunted Treant -- may be beefy, but there is no shortage of levels 26-32 at any given time. Never had to scrap it with less than 10.
Sandjaw -- see above
Corpse -- admittedly, i have no idea
Redmaw -- whatever, straight fight
Tarx -- whatever, easy as heck

Absolutely NONE of these adepts require 12 people -- unless all 12 people decided to blaze through the levels, neglecting to pick up gear on the way, and neglecting to keep up their skills. Also, when I say adepts like the Spectral Hunter and Huntfang are doable by 9 -- I don't mean 9 max level characters, I mean maybe a couple max level characters and the rest sprinkled 1-3 levels lower.

Okay, with that out of the way, sorry about the intensity! <3

EDIT: Not to be a bitch Kirin, but we are talking about level 20-49 adepts, soooo yeah =P
EDIT: Also, there is definitely a difference between being well-equipped for your level, like a paladin having 1k hp and 550ac at 28, and a paladin being TWINKED with 1350hp and 700ac. or something. yes? no?
 
Some excellent points

Admittly its been awhile since I did some of those Adepts, Wind Hag I have not tryed since way back when adepts were adjusted (with the red code and everything).

Talking with some friends about our old adept killing days I guess I jumped the gun a bit on a blanket 9 man reduction on the adepts. Ill have to do some research (aka geting a toon in on some of the ones I havn't done in awhile)

1 Rabb the Rat
9 Grikk the Reborn
12 The Beetle Queen
12 The Mist Stalker
14 Angar the Sand Lord
17 Flitterwing
20 Brancu Earthrumbler
23 The Fleshflower
25 The Spectral Hunter
25 The Wind Hag
26 Huntfang
30 Goretusk
32 Sandjaw
32 The Haunted Treant
35 Maggot-Infested Corpse
36 Redmaw
36 Tarx the Stormfeather

Those adepts are more or less ok, Corpse and Treant can cause some trouble specialy at night but your right they are doable. The only problem still is the ability to get toons to raid them. I know you said you have had a pretty easy time gettting grops to kill them, but I can't help but notice that 90% of the adepts are up at any given time. That doesn't sound like they are being done a lot to me. Thats the one thing knocking there diff down a bit would do (make it easyer for less people to take down). However Is that really what we want.... sugar coated encounters.


42 Sludgebreath
43 Snowskin
44 Icefeather
50 Tidefang the Wild
52 Lord Commander Ragarat
57 Traekoth the Ancient
57 Pounder_VIII_and_Pounder_XI


This list however... has a few problem childs. I can't even reember the last time I heard anyone even trying to take down Sludgebreath, Tidefang, lord commander... I can't say much about Snowskin and Icefeather as I have never tryed them, I have tryed sludgebreath, Tidefang and Commander.

At least with lord you have AAs that could help with the fight.
 
I think the reason why adepts are up 90% of the time is not because of difficulty, but because people just don't have patience...no one wants to stop and smell the roses and lead a raid! it's sad, because the workforce to get 'er done is there, but no one to be the foreman

also, has sludgebreath been taken out of the game? i went to where i *think* he spawns, and he wasnt there...i havent heard of anyone taking him down lately, either
 
phroggonalog said:
I think the reason why adepts are up 90% of the time is not because of difficulty, but because people just don't have patience...no one wants to stop and smell the roses and lead a raid! it's sad, because the workforce to get 'er done is there, but no one to be the foreman

also, has sludgebreath been taken out of the game? i went to where i *think* he spawns, and he wasnt there...i havent heard of anyone taking him down lately, either
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The problem with /explock is that all the exp you gain while locked is thrown away. At least when you lock to AA exp at level 51+ you're still accomplishing something. Maybe adepts would be hit more if people felt they could still exp and then have /explock max out at like 100k exp or something (and when it is turned off they get whatever exp had been banked during /explock). Then they'd still be able to "accomplish" something while waiting to experience an adept or two at whatever level they hold at.

I can only speak for myself, but in my opinion there's no way any adept under level 50 is worth throwing away exp for.
 
snowskin, best pull clicky ever lol, there are quite a few good reasons to explock but each to their own
 
Magina said:
snowskin, best pull clicky ever lol, there are quite a few good reasons to explock but each to their own
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With 12 people raiding him and 2 loots dropping...none of which is a guaranteed drop, and no guarantee of anyone definitely getting the drop...it still doesn't seem worth it to me to sacrifice several levels for a clicky with a low level debuff on it that may take you over a month to acquire. Starting at level 40 you could be level 65 with several AA's in that time. :-/

If it's just an alt you have and you can do something else between adept kills, then I can kind of understand.
 
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