Learning Curve for first timers

[Krujo81]

i got a question, can sod do combat instance zone's? if so is there away to code it so that after 6 people click an object in witch ever starting area they will be telaported to this instance zone where they can group up and hunt in this zone for i dunno an hour (i say an hour because most people have to refresh about once an hour)

its probably alot of work but its an idea if its doable

*Edit* and then maybe some of these lower zones can be taken out of sod and just use them for instances keep lowbie gear farming down to keep prices up, but at the same time rise drop rate in the instance zones or plat or spells so you dont have to spend the pp you earn there for anything but upgrading your equipment, personal idea for this would be level 1 -10 then 10-20 30-40 40-50 50-55 55-60 60-65 however i dont wanna replace the normal adventure out into the world to find good dungons so at like 20 the loot and money spells arnt as good as ventureing out into sod but insted inteded more for those who just dont have time to put a full group togather then go somewhere maybe even slightly less xp by boosting real dungons xp by 2%

 

[Cyzaine]

We don't like instances.

 

[calaran]

Why wouldn't you blame the game for this? Or at least the zone design? I personally think shrouded Island's usefulness ends when you are high enough lvl to pull the mansion. Risk/reward balance just doesn't exist there.

Well I agree that the particular zone in question is not really well-designed for players to want to go there when it's level appropriate... but there were other options I just did not avail myself of... and for that I don't blame the game. However it seems to me that really other than the yard trash and then eventually coming back for Starfall pieces, there is never any reason to go to SI... certainly not until the mansion is mostly greened out to ya.

It feels like it was basically designed not to be used. I always felt the same way about Fearstone... ZEM and a couple okay drops don't make it worth getting feared, harm touched, etc repeatedly when you could just go to BB then to Warrens throne room and be level 20 in a night. And the problem isn't that the other zones are too good/easy... if Fearstone or SI were the only choices at those tiers, I think players would mostly just quit playing. I don't see where the reward comes close to matching the difference in difficulty between these zones.

I have almost talked one of my friends into coming back around and playing... he's just trying to decide whether he really wants to play his casters or reroll melees understanding the xp-group disadvantages... I hope he comes back and I've convinced him the horrible suck was just because we didn't know the differences between here and Live well enough, but it still sucks that it took almost 3 years and one of us coming back over and over before we could finally play 'successfully'... heh.

 

[Krujo81]

We don't like instances.

well it doesnt have to be an instance really, forget everything i just said. instead of instance then agian when 6 players between the 5-10 level range of each other click an object it ports them to a safe spot within a pre existing zone and some yellow text will say like kill 50 goblins hunters or whatever and if you complete it your reward some minor xp if not all is ok because your still getting the xp that your group Normally would have for the kills you made. sorry if my imagination is running wild

 

[Wesell]

I just have to comment on this Shrouded Isle hate. The risk/reward ratio on this zone is fine, but it requires an advanced skill set that low level players might not have. Pulls need to be carefully executed, CC in close quarters might be needed, and group members need to restrain their curiosity or they will make unintended pulls.

Shrouded Isle is entirely skippable and you can XP all the way past 65 without using content that requires these skills if your group can't master them. I hope the devs don't change the few zones that require good group coordination.

 

[Dimmi]

well it doesnt have to be an instance really, forget everything i just said. instead of instance then agian when 6 players between the 5-10 level range of each other click an object it ports them to a safe spot within a pre existing zone and some yellow text will say like kill 50 goblins hunters or whatever and if you complete it your reward some minor xp if not all is ok because your still getting the xp that your group Normally would have for the kills you made. sorry if my imagination is running wild

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Category:Bounty_quests <-- ?

 

[calaran]

I just have to comment on this Shrouded Isle hate. The risk/reward ratio on this zone is fine, but it requires an advanced skill set that low level players might not have. Pulls need to be carefully executed, CC in close quarters might be needed, and group members need to restrain their curiosity or they will make unintended pulls.

Shrouded Isle is entirely skippable and you can XP all the way past 65 without using content that requires these skills if your group can't master them. I hope the devs don't change the few zones that require good group coordination.

I don't doubt that it's doable with solid group execution, etc... but do you honestly feel that what it gives in xp/loot/coin is comparable to the difference in difficulty from, say, Blackburrow/Warrens? I honestly don't recall what level the mansion stuff is so I may be comparing it to the wrong zones, but just compared to similar level zones.

I don't disagree that the zone has its place, and I don't disagree that it's doable by someone with knowledge of both game and group mechanics, with a balanced group... but that said, if it requires all that extra 'or else'... then shouldn't it also reward quite a bit more?

Maybe not. This will sound sarcastic but is not meant to be, but maybe the reward is simply not having a mindless/boring xp grind where total mediocrity is rewarded with par-for-the-course xp/loot.

 

[Wesell]

I don't doubt that it's doable with solid group execution, etc... but do you honestly feel that what it gives in xp/loot/coin is comparable to the difference in difficulty from, say, Blackburrow/Warrens?

Yes, it's a very dense area so you can make pulls very rapidly and the money is considerably better than other options at the same level. In addition rings drop which can be turned in to an NPC sitting just outside the zone line for additional, essentially free, XP and cash.

It's hard to say how much better rewards an area can really give for players in exchange for requiring different play techniques because players who succeed at applying those techniques will not experience additional hardship.

 

[calaran]

Yes, it's a very dense area so you can make pulls very rapidly and the money is considerably better than other options at the same level. In addition rings drop which can be turned in to an NPC sitting just outside the zone line for additional, essentially free, XP and cash.

It's hard to say how much better rewards an area can really give for players in exchange for requiring different play techniques because players who succeed at applying those techniques will not experience additional hardship.

Fair enough... I do think that in the context of this conversation, being 1st timers... it's a bad zone for them to go to. I don't mean to make the game too Easy Button, but we as a group had 1 higher up tell us to head there, thought they must know what they were talking about and figured that after we died so many times that maybe just all zones were that hard and since we didn't have our crap together, we just didn't belong... It's almost like newbie zones have 'tiers' although not based upon advancement... where BB/Warrens may be first tier 'cause most people could level there after being lobotomized... MielA strikes me as something like a 2nd tier, with SI being a 3rd... at least from what I've experienced... SI was the only zone, ever, up to level 62 now, that I've ever actually marked off of "places to visit with alts" ever again outside of starfall needs.

I don't know that any sort of list or warning needs to exist or anything... but it's unfortunate that a single zone, recommended by someone who has been around a long while, could lead to such frustration.

 

[jules4099]

SI is a great zone! I ALWAYS run my alts through there. It's creepy as hell, brings back memories of Unrest (naturally), it's the first zone that significantly ramps up the pp earnings (Fine Silk Robes >1p and light as hell, stacks of BB, decent flat cash drops, woohoo!), the XP turn ins outside the ent. Hell, I wanna roll a new toon and go run through it again!

It also teaches you better group mechanics. It's a workout CC-wise, pullers have to do more than target, cast\attack, and run like hell back to group. LOTE is almost adept-hard for a group of low 20's (tons of HP). The basement is just gnarly. Oh yeah, and THE TRAPS! Several named of varying levels who drop some usable gear (I think my tank JUST upgraded from Recluso's mask).

If any zone gets effed with or nerfed, don't let it be this one. It scales nicely level-wise, risk/reward is right on track, and if nothing else, you get to up your swimming going back and forth making vendor runs!

 

[Krujo81]

http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Category:Bounty_quests <-- ?

yeah those are nice but it requires finding these npcs and returning objects to them, maybe a single npc can be setup instead of an object that will give you the quest and once completed it will port you back (the entire group will return to where ever they came from) and hail the npc for another quest and depending on there levels they may be ported back to the same place or maybe some where else

 

[Cyzaine]

yeah those are nice but it requires finding these npcs and returning objects to them, maybe a single npc can be setup instead of an object that will give you the quest and once completed it will port you back (the entire group will return to where ever they came from) and hail the npc for another quest and depending on there levels they may be ported back to the same place or maybe some where else

Never.

Just never.

 

[Rari]

Never.

Just never.

Oh but playing the game and reading in game, or on the wiki where the locations and quest items are all fucking spelled out for you, is just so hard.

On a less pissed off and pointlessly sarcastic note, work is being done to make the wiki more new player friendly. I have no control over in game content obviously and in no way want to discourage people from being helpful in Dalaya's Beginners (or OOC for that matter.) But if we can make the wiki even more helpful for new players, yay.

Oh, and SI + the ring bounty? Totally soloed that shit till it ran dry, because SI loves necros. LOVES.

 

[daeo]

Someone on IRC started a first char in halas and was having a horribly hard time. I tried to suggest heading towards newport, but how would a new player accomplish this? No MoP in halas, and making the run through black burrow at a low lvl (when you dont know anything) might as well be impossible.

On this note... I was helping a new player Savis, a Barb War, who was lost at getting back to Malas. I am a new player myself and am unable to port anyone so I asked all over guild chat for help with either an invis or an escort. I was able to get a kind player to help with this and we were able to get Savis back to Halas, but for any other player who ends up getting walked out of Halas to Newport and then wants to go back, its really a rough venture. Maybe a portal needs to be added near Halas to help those barb characters stuck in the bitter cold.

 

[Notpit]

My first character on this server was a barbarian. I found leveling up to 10 to be very easy just staying in this zone. And after about that level I moved one zone over and found more to kill and at that point was able to travel to and from newport with ease.

Granted I did have prrior experience from Live, but I did not find the life of a new barb to be that difficult.

As I recall my only real problem was trying to find iron studs for a newbie armor quest.

 

[Emiljon]

I started out brand new without any live experience (my cousin played live and came here and got me to try it out).

Starting out is not really that hard. It took me a few hours to figure out how to move, chat, fight, etc. I got to level 5-6 before i logged out my first night. Granted I did have experience with other games.

The only situation where I would see an issue with starting out in this game would be if someone was starting without ever playing an MMO before. It doesn't take that long to adjust to the mechanics of this game unless you don't know anything about an MMO.

I don't see any reason to change the lower levels because getting used to how things work isn't that hard.

 

[Severien]

I started on the server sometime in 06 or so as a human monk and didn't have any trouble, but quit fairly early at 25 because I was still playing live.

Later on, in 2007 I came back to SoD. Because I could no longer log into my monks old account (account name doesn't fit in the client - WTF) I started up a warrior, Ardenn. The newbie area for him was Oggok/Greenmist and BOY DID IT SUCK BALLS. After about 15 deaths at level 4 I created a cleric, Praxes, moved to Newport, and started learning how to box for the first time. If I'd had no experience with SoD or EQ, I would have just quit playing on the spot.

I think some classes and starting classes really get shit on as newbies. A whole fuck of a lot more than others.

 

[Dynak]

Only starting zone I've really had a problem with is Halas, it needs more roaming lvl 1's. Most of the mobs are yellow and them orcs hurt.

 

[Chinghis]

Ya know, it's funny, but I just started playing that DDO Live thing. I've been playing for a week, and have died ... twice. I hate to say it, but, it's not that fun. Heck, I died in the first five minutes, I think, in Kaladim on live. Drowned or something in the stream (!). In DDO, I wade into five mobs, and clean up. That's just weird, and not challenging.

So, I'm cool with leaving the difficulty as is. People who stick with it are the people we want in the game.

 

[jules4099]

Been trying DDO as well. True, its stupid-easy on the solo, normal, and the next difficulty level for each instance. The hardest one (Elite?) is fairly challenging. You actually might need to use one of the bagillion potions you accumulate, or the resting points.

I let my four year old play the pally I rolled on there, and he pwns. 'Nuff said.