Larger bonus for 2 handed weaps

J

jules

Dalayan Beginner
2 handers currently have a simple 2h bonus attached to them, I'm showing a bonus of 16 on a 35/40 2 hander, at 51st level. While this is a great weapon, the bonus isn't... Which means that comparable quality 1 handers will out-damage the 2 hander by quite a lot, just because of their damage bonus being applied more often.

On eqlive, 2h weaps needed a 40+ bonus to keep up with fast 1 handers... The 2h weapon bonus was determined by some complex formula involving level and weapon delay.

Cheers,
Jules
 
Meh, its all in how you wanna look at it really, Not even factoring in the weapon bonus, 2h weaps are more brutal than 1h anyway

especially for your main tank, reposits are ungodly.

On live, i Kept with 2h weaps, before the bonus was even implemented, and i could out, taunt other melees, and if i was main aggro point, the mob tended to die quicker.

Just like an SK, with abilitys only, and a 2 hand weap, both partys equipped equally, vs a monk, with 1h weaps, the SK can win easily, More opposing swings, more chances for riposite in the hunreds, instead of 10 shots of 10-30

I dont see that WR is much diffrent, But the funny thing i find, is that people seemed too attached to the idea of how Live is, and seemingly think WR is gonna end up exactly like that, and something tells me, that Wiz and the staff didnt go thru all the trouble of creating the server, building a customized DB, and work like mad trying to keep the server in tip top shape, just to follow allong the same , old, Flawed , SoE mentallitys.
 
Jules... do you always feel to need to complain about things you have no clue about?

Weapons on WR do not have the traditional damage bonus, they have a damage bonus irrelevant of skill that scales with the delay. The REASON fast weapons were ungodly on live is that the bonus was the same regardless of delay, which meant that a 14 damage bonus 3/10 weapon would kick the crap out of a 6/20 weapon with the same damage bonus.

If you believe that this is the case ANYWAYS, contrary to the way I coded it, go pick up a thingypoker (3/9) in Nurga, and try it versus a mastercrafted 2hander (22/45). See which one deals the most damage.

Ratio is all that matters in WR - Ratio, Double Attack chance and Dual Wield chance. a 10/20 weapon performs the exact same damage-wise as a 20/40 weapon, but taunts more, whereas the 20/40 is better for ripostes on both ends (Less being riposted, higher damage ripostes for yourself).
 
People, people, why are you bothering with simple little things? No no, what you really need are cookies added in. COOKIES people. With no cookies, there is no life. With no life, err.... there is no server. So cookies are that important.

Thank you!
 
DPS tests on level 54 crypt keeper mobs in Sebilis tells us that a 28/32 weapon is slightly better than 9/19 + 15/28, even when you count their procs. Keep in mind here I'm a 60 warrior with every combat AA but Flurry and Double Riposte and such.

I'll make some more tests later.
 
Who's complaining? I love this server. I wouldn't spend hours and hours grinding exp, and posting on the boards if I didn't love it, i'd be on Guildwars or something. This is discussion. I'm posting what I experience, and what I think the reasons for my experiences are... Keep your pants on :)

With the tambourine of doom, 35/40 100dd proc, i'm not keeping aggro off warriors with mediocre 1h weapons, mage pets, monks, just about anyone buy non-casting knights...

My average hit is around 100, which is what the warrior with the 1h weaps is nailing quite often too.

200 is max, hardly ever happens.

The problem may be in the distribution of damage, and how that affects overall Taunt/DPS.
 
Jules, if you look at the stats on my weapons vs. yours it makes sense that I pull agro, let me attempt to do some basic algebra in hopes that it will come out the way I think it will. :p

Your weapon:
35/40 w/ 100dd proc

My weapons:
14/30 +3 disease dmg
11/22

Without looking into stats that affect chance to hit and damage such as strength and dex, if we take those out of the equation and just assume your weapon will do 35 damage every 40 milliseconds (insert whatever unit attack delay is based on here), it works out like this:

Your damage:
70 dmg (35*2 w/ double attack) every 40 milliseconds
Occasional 100dd proc so lets up that number to 75

My damage:
34 dmg (14 +3 * 2 w/ double attack) every 30 milliseconds
22 dmg (11 * 2 w/ double attack) every 22 milliseconds

so lets use a common denominator of 26,400 milliseconds to make the math easier.

Over a span of 26,400 milliseconds without any bonuses, here is the approximate damage we each do:

Mahne: 70 * 30 * 22 = 49500 dmg over 26,400 milliseconds
Dabu: (22 * 30 * 40) + (34 * 22 * 40) = 56,320 dmg over 26,400 milliseconds

So, unless your weapon is proc'ing much more often than I entered (once every 200 milliseconds or so), the damage leans towards my warrior solely due to the Dual Wield factor, which makes my weapons slightly better in ratio than yours assuming they're swung 4 times compared to your 2 attacks.

Hope thats clear, I didn't believe it either until I actually plugged in the numbers. The problem with this is, 35/40 is a high end 2hs whereas my weapons are mid-hi range 1hs, so it seems that the 35/40 needs a substantial dmg bonus and what not to even begin to compete with dual wield. Let's not get started on Despair :p
 
DW shouldn't be going off anywhere near 100 percent of the time, and DA on the offhand even less often, so the straight ratio comparison is probably invalid... But I get your drift.

Perhaps the problem is the damage/delay on 2h weaps then... Maybe the kickass solro weapon i have should be >1 ratio to keep up with the "mediocre" weaps you have. (no offense intended)


Here's some DPS figures from YALP, gathered over 10 Lost Ones fights in DN. Haste = Alacrity + Ripped Black Cloak (Mahne and Satrak)

Mahne, 51 warrior, 35/40 2hb: 40dps
Satrak, 46 monk, 10/23 + fist: 35dps
Goner, 44 air pet, (tanking!): 15dps
Grym, 49 shaman pet: 19dps

Sure, maybe I should exploit the DW bug and stick a 3/9 in my offhand and some absurdly high damage slow 1h in primary, and have it swing with 9 delay anyhow...

BTW, the air pet would steal aggro from me 1st hit, even if i brought mobs to camp with 20 percent hp taken off already.

Cheers,
Jules
 
Aggro is heavily delay based. Lower delay weapons means more aggro, because a flat number is added to the amount of aggro (based on damage) generated each time aggro is added.

Also, keep in mind that dual wield is supposed to be slightly higher damage wise to 2hs, as for classes like rangers/warriors to keep their damage edge over knights. But at jules said, DW doesn't always go off unless you have Ambidexterity.

DW and 2h damage are roughly well balanced based on the tests we've ran. Also, proc chance scales with delay, so a proc is no better on a 20 delay than a 40 delay weapon.

One more thing... Warden Warstaff is a trash mob drop, not a named mob weapon, so it's not *that* high end.
 
Are you sure 2h should be less damage? On live it is more, and it "make sense" to me at least.

Monks and Warriors get somewhat screwed if deprived of a good 2h option, as these are very useful to them for many reasons(avoiding DS damage, taking less riposte damage, less aggro, more DPS on live, whatnot).

As for the tambourine being trashy... Well, its pretty close to 1 ratio, and a nice proc, and I haven't heard of anything over 1 ratio...
 
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