Lackluster Beastlord Tomes

mechkl

Dalayan Elder
So its no secret the beastlords need a little lovin in some way or another, especially the higher in tier they get.
This is mostly due to their terrible melee scaling, the complete absence of pet scaling through the tiers and perhaps that beastlord tomes don't pack the most punch for class tomes.


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Empathic Warder: Shares ? / ? / ? / ?% of Beastlord's critical strike with the pet. Also heals the Beastlord for 7.5 / 15 / 22.5 / 30% of direct heals received by the pet.


This spell has a cool concept, but some super low numbers. adding my crit to my pet even 100% isnt a major upgrade to dps but is still something, and receiving direct heals from my pet is pretty neat idea although those numbers seem a bit low.

My suggestion would be:
Shares 25 / 50 / 75 / 100% of Beastlord's critical strike with the pet. As the beastlord takes damage his companion becomes enraged, eventually unleashing his rage in one devastating strike.

after so much damage is received by the beastlord the pet unleashed a devastating blow on its target with an internal cd of course, something like 5000/4500/4000/3500 damage received by the beastlord. This should go along way in helping beastlords aweful dps at the same time.


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Frenzied Companion: Grants the pet a chance to flurry based on the Beastlord's mana usage. Chances initiate when the Beastlord uses mana, gradually decaying until reaching zero. Flurry chances are capped at 15 / 30 / 45 / 60%.

this is another cool concept, but the scaling on the tome as u get the ranks is just aweful, with tome 4 done i can use my entire mana bar and not cap it out cause i am unable to cast enough spell fast enough. not to mention at rank 4 its gives your pet a 60% chance per round to do 2 extra attack which would only equal about 200 damage on the high end. That's assuming u have used your entire mana bar recently to get it to cap.

My suggestion would be:
Grants the pet a chance to flurry when the Beastlord casts a spell. Chances initiate when the Beastlord uses mana, duration of the ability to flurry is based on amount of mana spent. Flurry chances are 25 / 50 / 75 / 100%. At least 500 mana must be expended to start flurries.Every 500 mana spend it 20 secs of flurry time.

So basically get rid of the decay and build up mechanic. Just have them be flat time your pet flurries a certain amount of time as the beastlord casts spells. At rank 4 have the pet flurry every round while the beastlord is spending mana. Having the time based on mana spent makes the tome scale directly with the beastlord as they gain gear.



Now I'm not saying that all that's wrong with beastlords is their tomes but this is a good starting place. Pets in general is a whole other monster in itself to tackle. I left out suggestions for a 3rd tome because there are a lot of goods ones on this forum already. I dont need to copy paste them here.

TL,DR
change beastlord tomes to be cool.
 
Hmm maybe cause I'm not up to your tier yet but iono I don't feel that bsts need too big a bump in dps than what they already have. What I would like to see is more of something like this.

Empathic Warder
Retain the crit thing or upgrade it to your version. I kinda of like the heals but I think it should be boosted up to 50% or maybe higher and work both ways. But in addition to that I think what should be added on to this tome is that when you cast your swarm you have a 25%/50%/75%/100% chance to make them immune to all forms of aoe type dmg (Whirlwinds/Spells) while you the bst are alive.

Frenzied Companion
Iono how I feel about this one truthfully. Do I like it or not. Maybe if the flurry dmg scaled per tome rank.
 
The DPS that swarm pets do is balanced around the fact that they die so easily. It makes people plan for the best time to cast them on any given fight, which is a good thing. Making them immune to AOE damage would require their DPS being lowered substantially and also make it just another button to mash the instant it refreshes, rather than something you have to make a decision about (which makes for better gameplay).

I could see maybe giving them some percent chance to survive AOEs but making them immune is a different thing altogether.

I do agree that BL tomes as they stand are pretty lackluster but that's the case with a whole lot of classes, but it the devs feel like BLs need a bump the tomes would be a good place to do it.
 
I have a hard time imagining anyone new to the server reading about how tomes work being very excited. Maybe instead of suggesting new tomes people could suggest AAs that could be implemented in 2.5 and onward to replace/supplement the brilliant-at-the-time but now clunky work around that is tomes? Change is scary.
 
The DPS that swarm pets do is balanced around the fact that they die so easily. It makes people plan for the best time to cast them on any given fight, which is a good thing. Making them immune to AOE damage would require their DPS being lowered substantially and also make it just another button to mash the instant it refreshes, rather than something you have to make a decision about (which makes for better gameplay)

I want to mash buttons without making decisions tho! Jokes aside, maybe something along the lines of 1 pet in the swarm will be immune to the aoe stuff and the rest has a 2% chance, and as the tome hits rank 4 it will be 4 pets of the swarm have 100% chance and the rest having a 10% chance. No idea if thats possible to do tho. But itll be fun chance type thing.

I have a hard time imagining anyone new to the server reading about how tomes work being very excited. Maybe instead of suggesting new tomes people could suggest AAs that could be implemented in 2.5 and onward to replace/supplement the brilliant-at-the-time but now clunky work around that is tomes? Change is scary.

No idea how the new AAs work. Is there a limitation on how many passives and non passive type AAs you could have? Also 2.5 could be in 2.5 years, just saying :)
 
If BSTs had the damage added from Cunning/Wrath to their own parses like enchanters, how would BSTs look?
 
In raids where they hit an entire caster group with Cunning, BST dps contribution is among the highest of any class. Their big problem IMO is on mid/high tier 6man fights where you have the ability to buff the group with a cunning buffbot and bring a class that deals better individual DPS. But that's more of an issue with high tier 6man content in general being not balanced appropriately and forcing groups to bring optimal classes to win, which screws half the classes in the game.
 
cunning is 7% better than fiery, so its a 7% dps increase to just the caster group, which is typically 5 caster dps and a healer. If my math is correct, assuming every caster is doing a steady 1k dps w/o fiery, they would do 1130 dps with fiery, and 1200 dps with cunning. This would be about a 350 dps gain from just cunning, so i wouldnt say thats a necessarily high DPS gain in a typical raid where a bard is casting fiery for melee dps anyways. I did some pretty janky math based on a recent rujik parses but the jist of it is bringing a ranger or rogue or mage in the beastlord slot would be a DPS gain for the raid or it would just be a wash. Although cunning does allow caster DPS to dps harder without and SK tank so i guess you can factor that as DPS? Idk though, cunning is kind of overrated in raids in my opinion
 
Its interesting how people think cunning is just this amazing god send... its really not... its cool and handy, but not as amazing as u would think....

also if we count buff towards peoples dps, do wizards get blades dps, enchancters get dps from hasting ppl now, bards get fiery, mages/sham get all the extra dmg from using malo, ect?
 
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Its interesting how people think cunning is just this amazing god send... its really not... its cool and handy, but not as amazing as u would think....

also if we count buff towards peoples dps, do wizards get blades dps, enchancters get dps from hasting ppl now, bards get fiery, mages/sham get all the extra dmg from using malo, ect?

I think the duration of cunning kind of dictates that it should at least be discussed as a possible factor for BL DPS. You can't buff it in athica/sadri and have it last... I think of it like avatar or the shaman proc buffs on live...
 
I think the duration of cunning kind of dictates that it should at least be discussed as a possible factor for BL DPS. You can't buff it in athica/sadri and have it last... I think of it like avatar or the shaman proc buffs on live...
i think mage rods might give a pretty solid dmg output compared to cunning, as well as mages doing more raw dmg than beast. Fiery is probably singlehandedly the largest raid DPS buff that cant be cast in a town. The burn potential of curses, the extra DPS from druid archaic, all those things are raid wide and more useful than cunning. The biggest problem is that a beastlords personal dps is fucking awful at higher tier (poor scaling, although at lower tier bare fist are disgusting) while providing utility that is arguably worse than classes. Lets assume and you have a raid with 17 people and one slot left, typical raid set up high class diversity etc (2 tanks, 5 healers, 4 melee dps 1 bard 4 caster dps 1 enchanter) and lets say this raid has no beastlord. Would you rather bring a 2nd enchanter, a 2nd bard, or a beastlord? Nine times out of ten, a 2nd bard or enchanter will be much more useful.

TLDR: beastlords suck and their tomes should make them scale better into the higher tiers of the game
 
i think mage rods might give a pretty solid dmg output compared to cunning, as well as mages doing more raw dmg than beast. Fiery is probably singlehandedly the largest raid DPS buff that cant be cast in a town. The burn potential of curses, the extra DPS from druid archaic, all those things are raid wide and more useful than cunning. The biggest problem is that a beastlords personal dps is fucking awful at higher tier (poor scaling, although at lower tier bare fist are disgusting) while providing utility that is arguably worse than classes. Lets assume and you have a raid with 17 people and one slot left, typical raid set up high class diversity etc (2 tanks, 5 healers, 4 melee dps 1 bard 4 caster dps 1 enchanter) and lets say this raid has no beastlord. Would you rather bring a 2nd enchanter, a 2nd bard, or a beastlord? Nine times out of ten, a 2nd bard or enchanter will be much more useful.

TLDR: beastlords suck and their tomes should make them scale better into the higher tiers of the game
I don't disagree on any particular point, I was just sharing my opinion on cunning.
 
dam tevinter, if i didnt know better i would have thought you played a beastlord. very well put.
 
I would just like to point out that there is zero beastlords that have close to the gear that some other classes in this game currently have. They don't seem to stick around long enough.

Off the top of my head there is Kjiel, Barbii, and Vexiz that have rather good gear. Only Kjiel has a supreme and none of them have very many tomes. Not a single BL has over a rank 3 or 4 of their class tomes completed, other than Barbii having a Frenzied Companion 3 done.

I just saw that Obae has rank 4 of both done, but his gear really isnt the best.

Basically, all I am trying to say is, perhaps BLs are NOT as bad as they seem. We have just yet to see a super-amazing-finished BL that will really let the class shine. (I am not trying to be an asshole to anyone or trying to call anyone a bad player)

ALSO: just to be even more clear. I am not talking about SKILL at all. I amonly talking about Gear and Tomes.
 
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that would be cool if i was comparing myself to people like solosolki or erude or lleoc, but since im talking more like lowako or anyone whos even t10+.

And yes beastlords disappear alot because not getting to go on anything like 6 mans and people not wanting to being 2 beastlords to things burns u out quickly.

Sounds like your talking about something you know nothing about. (not trying to be an ass)
 
And yes beastlords disappear alot because not getting to go on anything like 6 mans and people not wanting to being 2 beastlords to things burns u out quickly.

FWF used 2 BL in almost every single raid when we were one-shot-no-warm-uping the world. I do know what I am talking about but you can get angry if you feel it will help.

If you have read any of my posts you would know I agree that Beastlords may very well be in need of a little bump. I just am wary of saying they suck.
 
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"suck" is a relative term. I would say beastlords are by far the worst class in their role right now scaling wise; that's my definition of "suck". and you had 2 beastlords and a guild full of people who were the top end of the game, you could push stuff over without completely min-maxing your raid setup. I once killed forest gloom with 2 clerics and 2 paladins a beastlord and a ranger does that make it the best setup?
 
I once killed forest gloom with 2 clerics and 2 paladins a beastlord and a ranger does that make it the best setup?

It's funny you even bring that up because a beastlord on a Gloom 6 man is just about the very best class you can bring. Also having two for Rujik is amazing, night and day difference.
 
being useful on 2 fights doesnt really make u balanced but that is true. although ive seen another class break goops 1000 times better.
 
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