Lack of charisma on pure melee and hybrid gear

S

soba

Dalayan Beginner
I thought about adding this to the lack of mana from ToT gear thread but I did not want to derail that thread.

I had never truly paid attention to charisma on melee/hybrid gear until my guild had approached the Thaz level but now I see a definitive lack of it on quite a lot of the gear that drops from Thaz tier onward (excluding class specific gear).Every single other pure melee stat is capped simply by stats from gear except for this.I believe CHA is an important and overlooked stat for both pure melee (weapon procs) and for hybrids (procs AND spells) and that an overhaul of items of at least Thaz+ tiers is warranted for those items.

These items are simply from my perspective (items that a Beastlord can equip that I have equipped) that lack ANY charisma at all, I welcome other examples.These items are not all Thaz+ but a good percentage of them are.

Teardrop Bead
Cajaf, Choker of Recollection
Headband of Madness
The Truculent
Bracer of Forgotten Battles
Wristlet of Azure Light
Hoop of Madness
Lava-scorched Clogs
Band of the Conniving
The Earthen Core
Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff

11 out of my maximum slots with absolutely no charisma at all definitely raises a red flag, why was it decided that this be (at least from my classes perspective) the hardest to raise out of the beneficial stats for both hybrids and pure melee?

I realize it would be an undue burden on the staff to have to go through so many items to rectify the problem (if they recognized it as a problem).Could a script be written that searches for items that do not include either wis or int based classes, except when included under all/all gear and have it add charisma to items that have none, equal to the lowest "pure melee" stat? Str/Sta/Agi/Dex etc.

I might be wrong in my impression but with all my other melee stats over the cap with my current gear, having my charisma stat be 93 under cap (with 30 charisma just from AA's alone) just seems a bit off.
 
Hybrids aren't supposed to have as much Charisma as everyone else. Pretty much the bard is the only hybrid out there that might have max cha and that seems fine to me.
 
Exactly what makes the Bard the exception to the rule? Having only one hybrid out of the multitudes as the only class that can max cha with items is patently fucking absurd, and not even correct as they seem to have the same problem as the other classes.

Charisma with currently equipped items:

Bards top 5

Felyn 345
Allielyn 354
Regasin 282
Ganam 225
Julon 215

Only TWO out of the TOP FIVE bards has capped or over the cap Charisma, I don't know why you see Bards as the exception to the rule but only 2 out of the top 5 have capped or overcap charisma with items.

Since I don't agree with your absurd outlook that only Bards should be allowed capped/overcapped Cha from items lets look at the other top 5 from other classes, this will of course be a somewhat rough estimate of their charisma based on what items they had equipped at the time of this post.Keep in mind these are the TOP FIVE of their class.

Monks:
Draxx 88
Zhak 186
Aleria 139
Wufai 118
Jedz 154

Paladin:
Gonobn 266
Kaloft 198
Balthor 161
Camille 184
Bounta 226

Ranger:
Drello 285
Mortulin 275
Brandor 158
Llanoldar 180
Kinotos 198

Rogue:
Arraz 99
Alton 133
Tryfaen 122
Onikitsu 113
Majk 172

Shadow Knight:
Finster 222
Volkov 192
Jose 153
Cvetkaa 167
Eleonor 120

Warrior:
Sald 238
Linken 176
Vargg 201
Calitik 176
Grimar 148

Out of all the pure melee/hybrid classes AT THE TOP OF THEIR CLASSES only 2 bards out of EVERYONE has capped or overcapped their charisma with items.If you really think that one class out of the multitude of pure melee and hybrid classes should enjoy this perk good for you, but only 2 out of the 5 top bards actually accomplished that, mostly because of gear THEY SHARE WITH OTHER HYBRIDS/MELEE.

I for one do not believe that Bards should enjoy this benefit out of all of those classes, which is why I posted this thread.If you still believe they should be the only class that should enjoy this then I'd be very interested to hear your reasons why they should.

As far as "Hybrids aren't supposed to have as much Charisma as everyone else", if you were including pure casters in that, lets compare the top 5 of classes I consider the ones most dependent on CHA, those classes where a good percentage of their spells or their most important spells are landed on mobs and not players (heals/buffs etc).

Enchanter:
Mikeathom 531
Cham 528
Zaela 496
Singurce 497
Ryst 437

Magician:
Alllizon 506
Ryei 492
Tinkaa 506
Aisling 518
Awardis 449

Necromancer:
Paxx 439
Temellin 463
Luas 492
Nasta 374
Kelity 456

Shaman:
Malleus 398
Podge 411
Lytec 424
Xavu 432
Nikoslav 380

Wizard:
Kade 523
Safiya 553
Nwaij 496
Strylok 532
Kemper 542

Even with my proposal of adding CHA to pure melee/hybrid items equal to the lowest melee stat on items that have no charisma I don't think you have to stay awake in bed at night worrying about the pure casting classes being trumped or even equaled when looking at those numbers.If you're still worried about the poor Bard class, well their CHA will be improved because the items they share with other classes (a good percent) will have their CHA boosted.
 
I can not imagine any game breaking balancing issues happening by adding more cha on melee/hybrid gear.

Frankly I always wondered what the hell was the point of such ridiculously overcapped stats like str and whatnot for melees when they could use a lil more cha at top end. Yet every melee item that drops has super STR attached to it. Cookie Cutter imo.

Not to sidetrack but same goes for casters. I am sitting on 553 cha UNBUFFED but in my entire gear set I gain a pathetic 48 Agi and 45 Str. I'm not gonna lose sleep if caster gear does not get more agi or str but I mean how boring and plain and repetitive do you gotta be to slap 20 cha and 15 Int on to everything?
 
Bards are the exception to the rule because they aren't really hybrids in the usual sense. They are in fact considered pure casters (hence the reason they get relics, where paladins and beastlords, etc. don't).

You are right however in that Bards are not the exception to the rule when it comes to finding good raid gear with CHA on it. Either that or we have this kneejerk tendency to pick HP/AC blocks over Cha items because it seems the former is more useful.
 
I have 110 base charisma and I usually use gear that gives high charisma. If we can use it, for the most part, beastlords can use it. If you want higher charisma, you just need to pick the gear with charisma on it.
 
Also bear in mind that Melee's proc's and Hybrids spells have HEFTY resist modifiers, meaning that they get RESISTED LESS than a pure caster's spell does. Generally, cap w/o unlocking w/ Heroic Power or anything is more than PLENTY of cha for most mobs for a Melee/Hybrid. For a long time I wore a Ring of Endless Suffering on a Paladin. -15 cha. It didn't hurt me too much for my tier of mobs, although stun still got resisted a little much by Faralak's elementals...

I'm not at the uberness tiers yet, so I can't really comment on those mobs resists, but I'd think cap w/o unlocking ought to be fine, given Zae's little experiment.
 
Zaela said:
Just for kicks I made a clone of Draxx (88 base cha), slapped relic focus on him, equipped him with Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff and threw him at a clone of a lvl 70 ToT named (farhanniath), which was tashed.

Out of 44 procs, 6 were resisted! 3 were partially resisted!!!!

If I'd thrown malo on there... boy oh boy.
Click to expand...

So do you guys make clones often of certain PCs that just annoy you and spawn them near raid mobs for fun? :keke:
 
Zaela said:
Just for kicks I made a clone of Draxx (88 base cha), slapped relic focus on him, equipped him with Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff and threw him at a clone of a lvl 70 ToT named (farhanniath), which was tashed.

Out of 44 procs, 6 were resisted! 3 were partially resisted!!!!

If I'd thrown malo on there... boy oh boy.
Click to expand...

thats fine and dandy for procs, but I am pretty sure Bsts get spells where cha is rumored to be of some assistance.
 
Well I know when I'm beat (read:ass kicked by pure data),my impression of the importance of charisma has gone way down.If I'd known how little effect it seems to have overall I never would have posted about this.That resist rate on Moon Comet is pretty damn high (if you include the partials) for having 523 cha on a mob that's had it's resists debuffed.

I really have to thank Zaela for taking the time to do these parses, very eye opening.
 
Zaela, your tests compare DDs and non DDs which play by completely different rules. You're putting out the idea that CHA has no effect which is just blatantly false.
 
Looking at it, it's probably a product of tash and malo next to the mob "minimum chance to resist" thing. It's impossible to knock a mob's resists below a certain amount by any means--cha, AAs, debuffs, and so on. The test mob likely reached that 'minimum resist' point for both kadeclone and rakeclone.

I did a ton of cha testing back in the day on Adalus for charming and found most of this stuff out then. Throwing a malise click and tashanian and having a ton of cha isn't needed for a goblin overseer, but it's a huge help for the ysthar in cmalath.

soba said:
Well I know when I'm beat (read:ass kicked by pure data),my impression of the importance of charisma has gone way down.If I'd known how little effect it seems to have overall I never would have posted about this.That resist rate on Moon Comet is pretty damn high (if you include the partials) for having 523 cha on a mob that's had it's resists debuffed.
Click to expand...

I would guess that this was because the mob was level 70.
 
So, uh, since rogues are melee wizards, with supposedly similar dps (wizards > burst, rogues > longterm)...

Wizard nerf inc? Or Rogue dps boost? ^_^
 
Alton said:
So, uh, since rogues are melee wizards, with supposedly similar dps (wizards > burst, rogues > longterm)...

Wizard nerf inc? Or Rogue dps boost? ^_^
Click to expand...

uh, rogues can continue to do dps long after a wizard is oom, on a long fight there is no way kade can parse 1200 for the whole thing
 
Manluas said:
...is totally useless.
Click to expand...

Only the ones without archaic.

Again, charisma is a very helpful stat to have and you can get it pretty high if you want it higher. The items are out there to get, and you can always get AAs. I would suggest to all of the newcomer hybrids to throw at least a few points into charisma if you want to experience the high end game, as all other stats are easy to max out with buffs.
 
Zaela said:
Just for kicks I made a clone of Draxx (88 base cha), slapped relic focus on him, equipped him with Spiked Obsidian Greatstaff and threw him at a clone of a lvl 70 ToT named (farhanniath), which was tashed.

Out of 44 procs, 6 were resisted! 3 were partially resisted!!!!

If I'd thrown malo on there... boy oh boy.
Click to expand...

Oh Zaela, you complete me.

Edit: Side note, I kinda agree with Rakeel here but it's not a dealbreaker in my opinion.
 
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