Knight swords

So how big of an innate boost are you going to give knights for using 1h weapons? Are you going to give us an innate increase to 2h weapons as well to still make it worthwhile to wield them when not tanking?
 
Nurgock said:
So how big of an innate boost are you going to give knights for using 1h weapons? Are you going to give us an innate increase to 2h weapons as well to still make it worthwhile to wield them when not tanking?
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The point of Knight's 1hander way better ratio was to make up (partially) for not being able to dual wield. The weapons wont be better anymore, therefore you get an innate boost for 1handers. No change at all except much more weapons to chose from. I don't see, what 2handed weapons have to do with it at all.
 
I cant even begin to imagine the work it will take to balance and convert all the knight one handers to dual wield ratios taking procs and stuff into account. :eek: Typically at high levels the knight 1 handers have more HP and cooler procs than dual wielded weapons due to the fact that we dont do much dps with them. I tip my hat to whoever does this!
 
Gea said:
The point of Knight's 1hander way better ratio was to make up (partially) for not being able to dual wield. The weapons wont be better anymore, therefore you get an innate boost for 1handers. No change at all except much more weapons to chose from. I don't see, what 2handed weapons have to do with it at all.
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And the world makes sense again.
 
Sounds like SK/Pal shields will need an upgrade if the weapons are reduced to be more like normal 1handers for other classes.
 
Bone said:
Sounds like SK/Pal shields will need an upgrade if the weapons are reduced to be more like normal 1handers for other classes.
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Think of it this way.

a 24/17 1 hander that is sk/pal only is dropped to 12/17. A ranger picks it up, its 12/17.
You add a bit in code that doubles the damage when a knight picks it up, it's back to 24/17.

On the other hand, you have, say, a 10/18 1 hander that is rng/war/brd/rg.
They pick it up, its 10/18. A knight picks it up, it's doubled to 20/18. Very simple.
The stats may be a bit wierd though, for knights, though rangers, at the very least, do share some similarities to the knights.
 
Or just don't change a few of the knight 1handers out there :( Hammer of Warding for example would more than likely get a huge downgrade (AC, skill mod, proc) if it wasn't a knight only weapon. Regardless, it's probably going to take a lot of work to get everything changed.
 
This sounds like a pretty good idea. In essence, its making the paladin and shadowknight a sort of master of one hand weapon combat, which gives them the ability to do more dmg by way of crits.

There is one problem I forsee for myself and paladins in general. With the great addition of paladin innate crits, my crit AAs, my item crit mods (and they could be higher with better gear) and my damage stance (more crits) I have an already very high crit rate. I question whether or not there will be enough opportunities to crit (like on hits where I'm not already critting) with a 1 hand to produce the previous dmg rendered by high dmg, low delay weapons. I would virtually have to crit on every swing with a lower ratio weapon to render the damage I currently produce with my crit rate and high ratio 1 handed weapons.

If it isn't possible to achieve this by way of crits another possibility would be to raise the paladin/sk 1h weapon skills so we would have a naturally higher base damage. Obviously, I'm not suggesting this to further increase the paladin/sk dps but to provide a way to produce comparitive damage as we have with high ratio weapons. Just a thought and I haven't parsed to see if it would be possible to produce this dmg through crits vs my previous dps and crit rates. I'm not much on math outside of what I'm already doing in college but its something to consider (as I am sure you guys are already doing). Hope this helps somehow.
 
I think the easiest implimentation would be to have an NPC at each of the paladin and shadow knight guilds that would accept normal 1hnders that have PAL on them and change them into the knight only version.

So lets say we have 2 primary usable swords. The first one dropped on a raid and didnt have paladin or SK on its class list so everyone knows its a DPS sword. Another one drops with DPS classes on it AND pal/sk, so a paladin bids on it and wins. The paladin takes it to their guilds crafter, who imbues it for paladin use, and it is now a paladin only sword with the same name.

You can either decide to keep the stats the same on the item besides the ratio or make it so the imbue ups everything on it.
 
Ehhh.. that could work but sounds a little cheesy. I'd almost rather have things left as they are and just make the pal/sk weapons a rarer drop so when they do drop the 1 or 2 knights in attendence will gladly receive them.
 
I would rather more one handers be put in to be honest. Just put my opinion in on how I would change it personally. Thought it might be nice to be able to do the entire change with some new items and quest scripts rather than major coding.
 
Waldoff said:
I think the easiest implimentation would be to have an NPC at each of the paladin and shadow knight guilds that would accept normal 1hnders that have PAL on them and change them into the knight only version.

So lets say we have 2 primary usable swords. The first one dropped on a raid and didnt have paladin or SK on its class list so everyone knows its a DPS sword. Another one drops with DPS classes on it AND pal/sk, so a paladin bids on it and wins. The paladin takes it to their guilds crafter, who imbues it for paladin use, and it is now a paladin only sword with the same name.

You can either decide to keep the stats the same on the item besides the ratio or make it so the imbue ups everything on it.
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That's a hideously complicated and inefficent way of doing it.
 
After thinking this change over, I'm not totally sure I like what might happen. I understand not wanting Knight 1 hand weapons to rot on raids after 2-3 kills, but most tank loot rots after that many anyway. Changing the ratios on current Knight 1handers, but lowering the stats on them (which are usually higher) is just going to be an indirect nerf to knights, since we rely on the stats, and only two other 1 handers currently in the game have similar stats to Knight weapons, and one of them is pretty much unattainable by a knight.

I'd love to see more options for knights as far as weapons go, but we(at least, Shadowknights) don't need DPS-based weapons, we need weapons that help us tank better, be it through procs or AC or skill mods on them, and the current high end knight weapon offers that, and I'm fairly confident that it would get a fairly hefty reduction in stats with this change, leaving me with only one other real 'tanking' 1 hander option (assuming the change effects all/most 1hand weapons out there). Knight weapons now seem to have a certain amount of freedom as far as procs, stats and other effects go, and I would hate to lose that unique aspect because the population doesn't have (and the raid game doesn't really allow for) many knights.

Now, I realize this change is going to take a shitton of work to code and implement, but unless there is some knight weapon unfound as of yet thats equal to IP, high-end knights could be stuck with what they have for months (like we already have been) if more weapons aren't planned on being added.

I'm sure most of these possibilities have been thought over, but I really just wanted to see if any of these concerns could be addressed.
 
I have to concur with Jose on this. While simply increasing the knight 1h abilities sounds good in theory (however this may be achieved - I dont believe it can be done by crits alone for paladins) I have a hard time imagining how this wouldn't end up being a setback for us for the reasons named above as well as those I mentioned earlier. Truth is, most knight and tank loots DO rot, weapon and armor alike, after 3 or so rounds. I think things should be left as they are at this point with hopes that, perhaps, a need for more than 2 or 3 knights/tanks on a raid will be necessary for some battles in the future. If these weapons rot too often maybe they should become the semi rare drop instead of the usual common.
 
What about the idea of "shieldmate" weapons?

Swords that prevent you from dual wielding -- your offhand weapon simply doesn't attack while you have it equipped. (you could still equip an offhand weapon -- preventing this would require client modification).

Change all PAL/SK weapons to "shieldmate" weapons, and you could have warriors/rangers added to the weapon.

With a touch of work, all 3 weapon styles could be supported with some kind of advantage:
Dual Wield, Two Hand, Sword and Board

What advantage each stace would have could be arbitrary. But, for an example:
DW: medium defence, medium DPS, high aggro
2H: low defence, high DPS, low aggro
S&B: high defence, low DPS, medium aggro

The difference between the 3 weapon-sets wouldn't have to be all that large to encourage most people to get 3 complete sets of weapons.
 
Hey, the whole giving pallies and shadowknights innate 1her bonuses sounds like a very simple and pretty great balance idea, I was just wondering if you even had a ballpark figure of when such a thing would be implemented, out of curiousity, thanks!
 
Bone said:
Sounds like SK/Pal shields will need an upgrade if the weapons are reduced to be more like normal 1handers for other classes.
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Late reply to this, but... why? I can't think of any 1h weapons that would be reduced other than for procs, which doesn't really help your tanking any. Shields are already very high ac/hp/other stats, I don't see where they'd need a boost.
 
Xeldan said:
Late reply to this, but... why? I can't think of any 1h weapons that would be reduced other than for procs, which doesn't really help your tanking any. Shields are already very high ac/hp/other stats, I don't see where they'd need a boost.
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Because knight weapons traditionally offer a little bit of stat and mod bonuses to help us tank that every other common 1h doesnt have. Thats one of the problems we are pointing out and what I think he was referring to.
 
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