Focus and Caster Itemization

Silosobi

Dalayan Pious Diety
So the thread about companion health/strength got me thinking about some things.

Focus effects are the primary way that casters improve their gear. Overall, it seems like a good system, and makes gear on casters feel powerful/useful, rather than just + more hp/mana.

I do notice a problem at times, where certain classes end up being "required" to obtain certain item(s) in order to be competitive/powerful.

For instance, a Necromancer needs Affliction Enhancement, Damage Increment, Range Increment, Mana Conservation, Casting Speed Increment, Reagent Conservation, Companion Strength, Companion Health, Control Enhancement, Bane Enhancement, Magic Focus, Cold Focus, Fire Focus, Disease Focus, Poison Focus.

That is 15 different focus effects, that a necro really should have all the time (maybe not bane, but you get the idea), from 20 pieces of gear. I hear all the time from people about how they cant wear xyz new cool item, because they cant replace the focus effect they currently have in that slot.

I don't think everyone should be able to always wear all the new cool items. Having to strategically pick your gear and swap things around is part of the game, and probably a good thing.

I think it would be good if there was some way to give people a *little* wiggle room. I don't know exactly how that should happen, I mostly just wanted to put the general idea out there and see what people think about it.

One thing that might work is to add way way way rare raid drops like 'pulsing stone of focus 7', which could be traded at a NPC for an aug with any focus 7 on it. Before we start yelling "OP" read my full idea. It may be deemed necessary to have negative stats on these, but you are already losing an aug slot. The key here is that they are SUPER rare. Players would still use normal gear progression for 98% of their focus effects, but if there is a certain point in the game where class x just has a lot of problems with focus y, their guild could award them the focus (assuming they get it tio drop).

I envision this as being something super rare. A raid guild might see 1-2 per month, so it would not by any means suddenly make it easy to have all focuses all the time, it would just let guilds help out a specific person who is having a lot of problems with one specific focus.

The focuses would only drop at a point in the raid game where that tier focus is the standard or even starting to get replaced (basically meaning, if you can kill stuff that drops a tier 7 focus, you can easily obtain all tier 7 focuses through normal gear)

IDK if this idea is the best way to approach things, of even if this "problem" should be "fixed", but I notice over time there are a LOT of threads basically saying x class cant obtain y focus at this point in the game, can we change things or add that focus to some items i want, or etc. I know numerous focus additions/changes that have been made for that reason.

This isn't a change I really want or care about (wizards don't have a lot of trouble with focuses since we only need 8 or 9 of the 15 focuses), but I just thought it was an interesting idea so I thought I'd put it out there for others to see.
 
I have an idea.

Instead of making each and every focus individual, we could combine some of them into one! Example: Focus Effect: Destruction of Tarhyl (Increase spell damage 21%. Increase Fire damage 6%)
See that? Its both Damage increment 7 and fire focus thing! Now thats just an example, but imagine if it was applied to other things too. Think of all the caster itemization problems this would help alleviate. Think of the children. Vote Lowako for SoD's next president.

This is just an idea to solve one of the woes of caster itemization, but problems still remain. (A certain t13 caster neck and super duper rare t12 caster robe being really "meh" items and having terribly low HP) But that can be discussed in another thread.
 
Although I really do get people's reaction to focuses and how much harder they make gearing yourself, I think that 1) It is being portrayed a bit sensationally and more importantly 2) It is not making the counterarguments of class/gear balancing.

There are only a few stats and item effects on SoD. Boiled down, each archtype needs the same base stats. The problem comes when we want to flesh out a tier with differentiated content and still make the loot worth getting for a guild over their normal farm on that tier. Focus' right now are the prime way to allow us to differentiate caster loot amongst similarly difficult content.

To make an extreme example, if we combined all focus' into one, it would be very hard to make an item that would be more than marginally better for a necromancer than a wizard, or a for cleric rather than a druid. The more differentiated focus needs we have between all classes, the better able we are to create content with items that incentivize guilds and players to do a broad range of content within each tier. Companion Health lets us make melee dps items that are best for beastlords and better for rangers than other dps melee classes. Elemental focuses let us make a caster or priest item and better tailor it to one or two classes.

Of course, this becomes a problem when a tier is not fully fleshed out and focus' are hard to find. Still, the benefit to all the other tiers (and the tier in question when it becomes fully fleshed out) outweighs this problem - at least in the opinion of the staff.

Now, that is not to say that there are not good arguments for combining or even abolishing specific focuses. But for those arguments to be salient you need to look at the deeper picture of itemization and how each focus splits up loot incentives away from the underlying archetypal standard.

Finally - responding to this thread in particular - I would be very worried that with an augment available per tier of focus that it would allow guilds to substitute varied raiding for specific raiding and lots of 6 man focus work. I am not sure if, with how rare it would need to be to keep the above reasoning true, it would be a very viable option to fix the problem you identified.
 
I do not think the issue is the shear number of focus required the problem is the itemization at the higher end not having an even distribution of focus effects.

For example I can think of 4 fire focus for casters and only 2 magic from spires and beyond.

I can only think of 1 comp health but three or more mana con for casters.

There are only 2 comp strength items (both rings) and at least 2 casting speed increment.

I think there are similar issues with all archetypes but I am just most familiar with casters. I would not be opposed to some items having combined effects like 4.3 sword (healing and damage) might be able to do others in interesting ways based on lore, or even combine the companion health and strength into just pet focus.
 
I'm not really pushing for this idea, but in theory it would be really really rare. Not at all as a consistant way for people to upgrade focuses, but rather as an unreliable, really rare, boost that people see just often enough to help out someone whos really struggling with one specific focus.
 
Should combine pet health/strength and poison/disease to help alleviate it a little IMO. Also yes there are some itemization issues such as int casters being stuck with Abyss gloves for 7% magic focus unless they get the very rare Rohk's Diamond or Researcher Thek'rak ear from Spires.
 
The question here is why is this specifically a CASTER issue?

There are tank swords by the score but if you want an on tier caster weapon
you have to have the 4.3 sword.

If you are a caster and want an on tier shoulders you have to have the COD shoulders.

If you are a Mage and want to have healing 8 you have to have Armlets of Genesis.

If you are a caster and want an on tier Robe you are out of luck.

If you are a Mage and want on tier legs that do not screw up your pet heals you are out of luck.

Now how this promotes class equality is a total mystery to me.
 
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The question here is why is this specifically a CASTER issue?

There are tank swords by the score but if you want an on tier caster weapon
you have to have the 4.3 sword.

If you are a caster and want an on tier shoulders you have to have the COD shoulders.

If you are a Mage and want to have healing 8 you have to have Armlets of Genesis.

If you are a caster and want an on tier Robe you are out of luck.

If you are a Mage and want on tier legs that do not screw up your pet heals you are out of luck.

Now how this promotes class equality is a total mystery to me.


This is not entirely true.

Can use akarn wand and a secondary item, or spire I destruction, plenty I available options just 4.3 sword is the best for dps, but it comes at a price of 5% hps per cast so on every encounter it isn't even the best option all the time for every caster.

Saitha has nice caster shoulders, it's all about priority and how much 1% crit means to you.

What problem do you h e with your legs?

I kind of agree with the robe issue as personally I think the best available is ferdin's robe and that is in yclist.

You are just pointing out best in slot complaints and not real itemization complaints. The problems I was facing in progression and now is mainly with casting speed and companion health, but that's just bc swift slippers wouldn't drop for me.
 
I do not min having to sacrifice stats for a focus I just think there should be more than 1 or 2 options for each focus.
 
This is not entirely true.

Can use akarn wand and a secondary item, or spire I destruction, plenty I available options just 4.3 sword is the best for dps, but it comes at a price of 5% hps per cast so on every encounter it isn't even the best option all the time for every caster.

Saitha has nice caster shoulders, it's all about priority and how much 1% crit means to you.

What problem do you h e with your legs?

I kind of agree with the robe issue as personally I think the best available is ferdin's robe and that is in yclist.

You are just pointing out best in slot complaints and not real itemization complaints. The problems I was facing in progression and now is mainly with casting speed and companion health, but that's just bc swift slippers wouldn't drop for me.

The best robe isn't even off an 18 man raid dragon
 
Can use akarn wand and a secondary item, or spire I destruction, plenty I available options

Sure you CAN use these it is just that they are clearly inferior to items from the tier below.
If you wish to have competetive dps you HAVE to have 4.3 sword which is why ALL the leading dps casters have it.


Saitha has nice caster shoulders

Saitha has bloody terrible shoulders that are clearly inferior to Shroud of the Hellions (T10) or Ys-Vaine (T11)

What problem do you h e with your legs?

THE major issue a Mage has is keeping his pet alive.
I have no desire to jepordise this by collecting negative WIS stats.

You are just pointing out best in slot complaints and not real itemization complaints

We may have slightly different concepts of "itemization".
To me it means that you have different routes to achieve an equivalent destination.
So every caster does not finish up having 4.3 Sword and CoD back for example.

So I very much agree with

I just think there should be more than 1 or 2 options for each focus.

The problems I was facing in progression and now is mainly with casting speed

You do realize that with the recast time on rains casting speed increase for Mages does bugger all?
 
Sure you CAN use these it is just that they are clearly inferior to items from the tier below.
If you wish to have competetive dps you HAVE to have 4.3 sword which is why ALL the leading dps casters have it.




Saitha has bloody terrible shoulders that are clearly inferior to Shroud of the Hellions (T10) or Ys-Vaine (T11)



THE major issue a Mage has is keeping his pet alive.
I have no desire to jepordise this by collecting negative WIS stats.



We may have slightly different concepts of "itemization".
To me it means that you have different routes to achieve an equivalent destination.
So every caster does not finish up having 4.3 Sword and CoD back for example.

So I very much agree with





You do realize that with the recast time on rains casting speed increase for Mages does bugger all?

I am not a smart guy so explain to me, in terms a 5 year old can understand, that generals shoulders are better than Saitha shoulders, outside of -55 hp, -65 mana.
 
I am not a smart guy so explain to me, in terms a 5 year old can understand, that generals shoulders are better than Saitha shoulders, outside of -55 hp, -65 mana.

+1 FT and +6AC are clearly better than 55hp and 65 mana.
And that is without considering the Pet Strength on it.

Is that clear enough?
 
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+1 FT and +6AC are clearly better than 55hp and 65 mana.
And that is without considering the Pet Strength on it.

Is that clear enough?

You are 5 FT over cap how exactly is that benefiting you? Also 6 AC is not even CLOSE to as good as 55hps for even a tank (who get a better conversion of AC to HPs). Casters take more damage from AOEs than melee which puts a higher value on HPs anyways. It is posts exactly like this that makes people question every word of drivel that dribbles out of your mouth.
 
You are 5 FT over cap how exactly is that benefiting you? Also 6 AC is not even CLOSE to as good as 55hps for even a tank (who get a better conversion of AC to HPs). Casters take more damage from AOEs than melee which puts a higher value on HPs anyways. It is posts exactly like this that makes people question every word of drivel that dribbles out of your mouth.

Dang bro
 
So you never use st dd, monster summon,mod rods, elemental barriage, etc?

Yes 4.3 is the best sword and option for dps but there are other alternatives and some fights better options. Then again it is from one of the hardest encounters so it makes sends for it to be one of the best.
 
It is my understanding (and I would welcome any correction) that you benefit from worn FT up to a limit of 40. The cap only applies to mana regen in combat.

I much prefer AC to HP because my pet gets partial benefit from my worn AC but gets no benefit from my HP.
 
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