Festering Curse Borked? or was it changed?
- Thread starter Boramur
- Start date
Wiz said:
:roll: Typical SoE reply. Nerf spells or AAs rather fix the mobs that is the problem.
Delacroix said:
Now that's a more practical solution, something SoE should have done from the beginning. But, no, SoE Dev team is too lazy to do that, so it's just much easier to nerf the spell rather than adjust the mobs themselves so they can't be snared nonewhatsoever.
Making high end mobs unsnareable would solve the problem entirely.
On a side note, nerfing spells and AA is what gets class balancing broken in the first place. Why you think so many SoE subscribers leave the Live game in droves in the first place? Nerfing spells and AA isn't necessarily 100% the answer, the problem can be from a single mob itself. That can be easily remedied by simply changing the code on the mob so that it can't be exploited ever again.
I played my Necro for 5 years, I know how my class plays. The problem is that many from the Dev department and players in general are ignorant on how Necros work simply because they never played the class.
So dealing with ignorant people and trying to get them to see reason becomes frustrating and fruitless simply because they're distrustful of players to play their classes *honestly*. SoE does not expect anyone to play their class honestly without intending to exploit the use of their class (any class for that matter).
Dishonest players comes as a small minority, not a majority. Just because some asshat decides to exploit the potential of what a class can do doesn't mean that everyone will do it.
So please, don't nerf spells and AA simply because you're afraid of the potential possibility that someone may exploit it for use to their advantage.
kathgar said:
I for one highly agree with that, it is a very bad idea. But be careful of what mob and WHERE the mob is though, if a mob runs and brings back it's buddies, it can make a complete raid wipe, every single time. So this needs alot of thought before implementing what mob should be ALLOWED to be snared and what shouldn't be. It all depends on the location of the zone and the mobs surrounding the target.
Here's an idea, in some areas where a potential wipe can be produced every single time on a unsnareable mob, why not add a very high resist snare code on the mob, say that it could take something like 1 out of 5 or 10 possible successful raid. Kinda like playing the lottery where you get 1 out of 5 chances of winning. The potential for a guild raid taking on a very high odd of winning would be something fun and challenging and the reward that comes with it. So yeah, let there be raid wipes, let them go "oh poo! Oh well, maybe we'll have better luck next time" and keep trying until they reach success. Let there be frustrations, let them get pissed off. But at the end, let them rejoice of winning and pat each other's back of finally have a successful raid.
I like how this game caters to the emotions of the player, much joy, anger, wonderment, puzzlements, frustrations, dissapointments, etc. Much like how we all go through in real life with it's ups and downs. EQ has all that great elements of life, even though we know it's just a game.
Going back to the quote again already mentioned above.....
Wiz said:
What's wrong with snare Wiz? It seems you have a problem with any kind of snare spells or AAs in itself (or just any kind of snare line spells or related to it's spell family tree that contains snare). Is that what I am reading correctly from you? If not, please help me understand more about your line of thought.
Wiz said:
I don't understand that line of reasoning? Can you explain a bit more and give us some example of that?
Some questions raises in my mind.
Do you have a problem with soloing?
If you mean auto-soloing, are you talking in terms like what Bards can do? They can auto-kite a mass number of mobs at once. (I understand that Bards can now kite multiple mobs now in WR as where Bards can't do that in Live anymore as it has been nerfed) I've watched a Bard grab some mobs, plop a roll of quarters on a arrow key that leaves them running in a constant circle and they can walk away to get a soda and snacks while the mobs is chasing the Bard with no avail of touching him. The Bard was already using Run5 which is about the same speed as SoW (if not faster, as I never got that Run5 AA myself, so I can't tell you exactly what the run speed is like with Run5 AA, plus the Bard didn't tell me what he was using as a run speed nor did I ask).
But I could be ignorant about the Bard class simply because I never played it, so someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.
My final impression is that if anyone defends what is considered to be a very useful spell or AA and does not see it as being exploitable or overpowering should be viewed with suspicion and skepticism, thereby deciding that this person should not be trusted with the spell or AA as the player may not play honestly and fairly with the spell or AA while killing a mob.
Also, if this AA is a concern for PvP, then code it not to work on players if this AA is deemed unfair competition to other classes.
Nerfing the AA is not a solution, it is by no means overpowering nor is it exploitable. Fixing the raid mobs (under certain situations and location of zone as well as the location of the mob itself) so they cannot ever be snared is the solution.
That's my bagload of more than just 2 cents.
Yiz
Wiz said:
Oh wait, I'm starting to understand what you're saying, no, that's not what we talking about in terms of ALL mobs becoming unsnarable.
What we're talking about is a RAID ONLY MOB, period. Not just any general mob in any zone from the newb zone to the high level zone.
A raiding mob that drops some very powerful or very rewarding items for classes to use should not be snarable. Period. That will keep a soloer from exploiting the use of the AA to loot items that is sellable to players when it should be shared with the raiding guild.
Just make those types of mobs that you are very concerned about unsnarable, that'll solve it. Nerfing the AA for general use of regular mobs just doesn't work.
If you're concerned about someone FDing while the AA is at work, how about this instead..............if a player FDs for a period of time, say about 5 minutes, then the AA on the mob should suddenly break and is no longer killing the mob. If that sort of coding is possible. Just an idea. How's that one folks? Would that work?
Yiz
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Wait. Replying "FC is a snare" to someone who was complaining that keeping two mobs snared at once is too hard on mana is a typical SoE reply?
We're not talking about "potential" here. We're talking about a death touch over time on anything that can be snared.
You use a lot of words to say almost nothing. Raid mobs being snarable is not an issue at all since they summon. It's only an issue combined with festering curse and FD.
This is the most absurd piece of hyberbole I have ever read. Please learn some logical deduction instead of flailing around wildly.
OK!
Mielech's Labratory is added in. A level 63 boss that is tooled for a group of 65's, with gear akin to Arbiter or Ancient Tarlisha is put in. This mob is not tagged unsnarable. A necro flops in and solos the mob with practically zero effort.
I'd rather not have to make everything that should not be soloable unsnarable either, that's a pretty nasty nerf, especially with running mobs.
Only the kind where you hit a button and then wait for the mob to die with no risk. (And don't hyperbole that into "kiting is riskless" or whatever's going on up there when you read this)
You'll be happy to know that bards can only swarm a certain amount of mobs at once (6), and the back-stun, faster move speed and range AAs not affecting their damage songs means that bards have to stay on their toes to perform this certain kind of kiting.
I'm sure you'll either talk about how it's terribly easy anyways (without having tried it on WR of course) or will now lament over the nerfed bards. Don't bother.
But I could be ignorant about the Bard class simply because I never played it, so someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.
Your strawman is very pretty, but it hit off target, I'm afraid.
It isn't, so no problem
It just solved it perfectly, actually. And sure it is overpowering, it's a auto-solo button. Fixing the "raid mobs" plus every other mob we don't want soloed will take hours, and not be a perfect solution by any means, plus every encounter we design from now on has to take the necro hitting his DT button in mind.
No, I think I'd rather nerf the AA, thank you.
Next time you're going to make one of these posts, please cut out the emotional appeals, strawmen, red herrings and whatever other dime-a-dozen fallacies you managed to prestate and just make your argument right away.
And if you think I was mean to post this, I don't really see much reason to let you put words in my mouth in every other sentence unchallenged, and that you should probably not be trying to twist the words of other people if you want a nice response.
Wiz said:
To be fair I was complaining that asymetrical MOB movement is dangerous during a multi-kite. Maintaining an extra snare is trivial, mana wise, given a necro's mana regen. Since the Curse is a snare a necro could kite 2 MOBs provided the snare speed were the same. If they were not the same problems exists. Festering Curse as is would find its most practical use as a back up snare when your first cast was resisted. If the cast time is short enough the ability to click snare a second time before FDing would be a nice AA to have for soloing.
Having played a bard for longer on WR than anyone (since I was responsible for pushing Wiz into actually fixing it), I can tell you that AE kiting does not work here as it does on Live. I don't know what "run5" AA is... does Live go that high now? You can't just run in a circle now because songs don't reach that far anymore. Something that has been fixed on live as well, coincidentally.
Don't bring bards into this argument. We're on a level all our own which has its own risks and reward scale. And we cannot go AFK while we kill anything. No one SHOULD be able to do that. (hell, even cleric/warrior combos can't, and if THEY can't, there's no way anyone else should. Duh!)
Don't bring bards into this argument. We're on a level all our own which has its own risks and reward scale. And we cannot go AFK while we kill anything. No one SHOULD be able to do that. (hell, even cleric/warrior combos can't, and if THEY can't, there's no way anyone else should. Duh!)
melwin said:Raherin said:
Hey, shut up, FC is plenty useful. You didn't buy Divine Rez when it was good only to have it nerfed to uselessness with no refund.
I'm seriously asking it, I'm not making fun of the AA or anything. When would a raiding/grouping/soloing necro actually use that? I'm not saying it's useless, I actually want to see some ideas for it.
The only time i use this AA is when soloing, it lets me cast a mana free snare, Yipeeeee :roll: The AA costs 5 AAs FYI recast time is 1:12 so its not like i use it much.
It is no good in groups as the group kills the mob way to fast.
It is no good on raids as you can't snare anything.
So i use it once in awhile while i solo in an area that i need to snare a mob.
Wiz did increase the damage the spell does by 10s Vs 5, but the damage is useless, unless you want to run the mob around for hours. Now if the damage was doubled eg. 25, 50, 100, 200, etc that would be useful for damage Vs just a snare.
Kindar Morgoth
Level 65 Necro
It is no good in groups as the group kills the mob way to fast.
It is no good on raids as you can't snare anything.
So i use it once in awhile while i solo in an area that i need to snare a mob.
Wiz did increase the damage the spell does by 10s Vs 5, but the damage is useless, unless you want to run the mob around for hours. Now if the damage was doubled eg. 25, 50, 100, 200, etc that would be useful for damage Vs just a snare.
Kindar Morgoth
Level 65 Necro