Evening the scales: Criticals for necros/enchanters/etc

[Zombu]

I was grouping with a bunch of people in the deep yesterday when a wizzie hit 49 and got new spells. Cool, makes our jobs easier. As we're fighting, she casts an ice comet spell or something. I notice something I never really thought of before.

2300+ damage as a critical.

Now, I don't expect my necro to be able to deal that sort of damage, as it's a huge balance issue (She doesn't get a pet, for example). However, from what I've seen, all classes I can think of have a chance to critical hit except enchanters or necromancers.

Why is that? Why should a wizard's DD be able to critical for 2x the amount of damage, but enchanters and necros DDs cannot? How come warrriors and monks can hit for critical, but our high level pets cannot?

Is there perhaps some way we can balance this out with giving all DD spells a chance to critical and all melees a chance to critical, albeit at higher levels (I have no problem if a warrior gets critical at 20 and my pet gets it at 34).

 

[vykarsis]

wizzy are pure damage and thats it.
Give my wizzy a lvl 56 pet or the ability to cast kei and charm and i will give up the crits.

Get some aa s

Everyone can crit.

Yes lvl 49 is a good level for a wizard . But you gotta look at how much mana that spell costs to cast and how often you actually crit with it.

 

[Zombu]

wizzy are pure damage and thats it.
Give my wizzy a lvl 56 pet or the ability to cast kei and charm and i will give up the crits.

Get some aa s

Everyone can crit.

Yes lvl 49 is a good level for a wizard . But you gotta look at how much mana that spell costs to cast and how often you actually crit with it.

No offense, but I think that's a really stupid way to look at things.

Of course wizards are pure damage, but why are getting the chance to use your native skill at double efficiency when we can't? I can't cast a dot that does 2x the damage, I can't summon a pet that criticals or is stronger than normal, enchanters can't charm something for twice the normal duration.

Wizards can DD 2x with a critical.
Rogues can backstab 2x with a critical.
Clerics aan heal 2x with a critical.
Monks can punch 2x harder with a critical.
SKs/Paladins/Warriors can hit 2x harder with a critical.
Necromancers and enchanters can't do a critical with either of their native skills.

As for AAs, if you can critical at level 1, I'm just supposed to wait 50 more levels for that to balance out?

As for the mana, she told me it cost 430 and did 1250 on average, 2400 with a critical. At level 49, I have a poison spell that does 400 damage for 210 mana and NEVER criticals. I have a DD fire nuke that does 550 damage for 230 and never criticals. I understand that wizards will always have a higher mana to damage DD ratio, but why can't we critical?

How about a necromancer critical that doubles the duration or damage of a dot? Or pets that can critical hit? Or Hell, how about the DD spells with have being able to critical? How about enchanter charms being able to critical where the duration of the charm is doubled?

 

[SKRandar]

Just wait and see, your necro will out-dps many other classes in the end. Without crits.

 

[Zombu]

Just wait and see, your necro will out-dps many other classes in the end. Without crits.

I really don't think that's a valid excuse, though.

The fact is there is a skill that every other class in the game has that necros and enchanters simply don't have.

How would you feel in Wiz removed all SK spells and said "Well, you're a tank and that is where you do your damage, you didn't need them anyway"?

 

[Rambler]

Only the three pure classes get criticals.

Warriors, Clerics and Wizards. It's fair.

After that it's AA or gear that makes other classes crit. So yes, you can crit just fine on an enchanter or as a necro. Buy the AA's and you can start chain nuking like a Wizard. Have fun playing your class horribly stupidly wrong.

I still fail to see how there is anything close to a problem.

 

[Rambler]

I really don't think that's a valid excuse, though.

The fact is there is a skill that every other class in the game has that necros and enchanters simply don't have.

How would you feel in Wiz removed all SK spells and said "Well, you're a tank and that is where you do your damage, you didn't need them anyway"?

Have you actually even played this game? I'm starting to think more and more that you're simply illogically spouting off for some reason.

 

[SKRandar]

Why isnt that a valid excuse? Crits are there to raise the dps on some classes. Since a necro already has a good amount of dps, they dont need crits. Its as simple as that.

The fact is there is a skill that every other class in the game has that necros and enchanters simply don't have.

True. But I guess its with a reason. Not only to annoy you

 

[Arif]

Sounds like class envy. That is basically whining. Either make a wizard or give it up as evrey single class envies other classes. I used to think that beastlords could do it all until I made one and played it. Make a wizard and try it for a while. The game is not about equality it is about fun and a necro is a hell of a lot more versatile and fun than a wizard is.

 

[Rambler]

Why isnt that a valid excuse? Crits are there to raise the dps on some classes. Since a necro already has a good amount of dps, they dont need crits. Its as simple as that.

Well, I'd argue something different. I'd say that Necros get plenty of more useful AA's than critical hits and that they shouldn't get it because ... they have more useful AA's. I'm not at all familiar with Necros, but I know that they have some wicked sick spells with some wicked sick AA's.

Question though, as a Shaman, should I invest in critical nukes? Nope. Why would I bother? Oh I'm so jealous!

 

[SKRandar]

I'd say that Necros get plenty of more useful AA's than critical hits and that they shouldn't get it because ... they have more useful AA's.

I didnt really talk about AA's, more about pre-AA. But allright

Point is, that necro's dont need to crit.

 

[Zombu]

Only the three pure classes get criticals.

Warriors, Clerics and Wizards. It's fair.

After that it's AA or gear that makes other classes crit. So yes, you can crit just fine on an enchanter or as a necro. Buy the AA's and you can start chain nuking like a Wizard. Have fun playing your class horribly stupidly wrong.

I still fail to see how there is anything close to a problem.

How can I play it wrong?

I'm level 48. I don't have criticals and won't for another few levels.

Maybe you should stop thinking everyone in the game is level 50+.

Why isnt that a valid excuse? Crits are there to raise the dps on some classes. Since a necro already has a good amount of dps, they dont need crits. Its as simple as that.

The fact is there is a skill that every other class in the game has that necros and enchanters simply don't have.

True. But I guess its with a reason. Not only to annoy you

DPS = damage per second.

How does a cleric exceptional heal factor into that?

Why isnt that a valid excuse? Crits are there to raise the dps on some classes. Since a necro already has a good amount of dps, they dont need crits. Its as simple as that.

Well, I'd argue something different. I'd say that Necros get plenty of more useful AA's than critical hits and that they shouldn't get it because ... they have more useful AA's. I'm not at all familiar with Necros, but I know that they have some wicked sick spells with some wicked sick AA's.

Question though, as a Shaman, should I invest in critical nukes? Nope. Why would I bother? Oh I'm so jealous!

So on your logic, any type of class issues before level 50 are null and void because after that, they get AA skills?

The problem with that logic is you're basing your entire opinion on high-level content. Imagine if the only thing better armor-wise for monks than leather was some no-drop stuff in the plane of hate. Would you say "Well, who cares about monk armor? Once you get to plane of hate in 50 levels, you'll be set!"

 

[Rambler]

You do realise of course that Monks can't critical hit before level 50 either, right bud?

You also must realise that I didn't AA until level 65, on both characters.

Again, you must also realise that I don't even have the critical strike AA's. Why? They kind of suck compared to other more useful AA's like Lightning Reflexes, Combat Agility and Ferocity, Natural Durability, etc etc. The list goes on. Critical hits are friggin' eye candy man.

 

[Rambler]

Your original post is debased so far from fact that you seriously cannot play this game as a level 48 Necro.

Your level 34 pet would be roughly a level 30 warrior? Right? Close to it?

While we're at it Wiz, I want Monk's to get Necro pets, and Shaman's to get Mage pets. It only makes sense right? It only makes sense. In the interest of fairness and balance though, I guess I should get a down graded pet, say, level 49 Necro pet at level 30. Wouldn't want to imbalance the game.



Anyway, I'm sure at some point you'll understand what's going on. I hope. You'll realise that it's only the three pure classes that get criticals, and rightly so. Past that there's really nothing more to say. AA's are AA's for a reason. People get them how they want 'em.

 

[Zombu]

Your original post is debased so far from fact that you seriously cannot play this game as a level 48 Necro.

Your level 34 pet would be roughly a level 30 warrior? Right? Close to it?

While we're at it Wiz, I want Monk's to get Necro pets, and Shaman's to get Mage pets. It only makes sense right? It only makes sense. In the interest of fairness and balance though, I guess I should get a down graded pet, say, level 49 Necro pet at level 30. Wouldn't want to imbalance the game.



Anyway, I'm sure at some point you'll understand what's going on. I hope. You'll realise that it's only the three pure classes that get criticals, and rightly so. Past that there's really nothing more to say. AA's are AA's for a reason. People get them how they want 'em.

I understand what you mean, and I don't really want critical nukes and dots. Hell, I don't think you could even implement critical dots.

What I want to know is why is my 44 pet, which should be roughly equal to a 37 warrior, isn't critical hitting. Can you explain the rationale behind that one?

 

[Rambler]

It's a pet. Not a real warrior.

 

[Zombu]

It's a pet. Not a real warrior.

Actually, the whole purpose of the necro pet is to serve as a psuedo warrior, especially when taken into comparison against the other pets, namely mage elementals.

Physically, it is weaker than most of the elements and doesn't have any inate abilities. It makes up for that by taking warrior abilities, such as bash, duel wield, double attack, and kick (albeit I don't think my pet has ever kicked anything in this server). So your fire elemental pet might have a damage shield, but mine can bash. Why? Because my pet is a warrior.

Do you really think it would be so off balance for higher level necro pets to have a chance to do double damage, going from 40 a hit to 80 once in a while, especially when the only thing that makes them better than other pets is their warrior abilities?

 

[Kasreyn]

While we're at it Wiz, I want Monk's to get Necro pets, and Shaman's to get Mage pets. It only makes sense right? It only makes sense. In the interest of fairness and balance though, I guess I should get a down graded pet, say, level 49 Necro pet at level 30. Wouldn't want to imbalance the game.

Anyway, I'm sure at some point you'll understand what's going on. I hope. You'll realise that it's only the three pure classes that get criticals, and rightly so. Past that there's really nothing more to say. AA's are AA's for a reason. People get them how they want 'em.

I think post gets to the heart of the matter. Wizards get big time burst dps, crits are part of the package. Necros get more versatility and big time duration dps. I play a wizard, I'd like to be able to lich or FD from time to time. That 2300+ crit that person got is pretty big damage for that level, but ice comet has a horrible mana:damage ratio. If your necro spent that much mana, you're likely doing the same damage, maybe more.

About pets: necros, enchanters and mages get pets, wizards don't. They have to rely on aggro from other players (grouped) or snares and roots (solo). mage's have the best pets and can eventually get their pets to crit, but it takes many AAs to get that.

KAS

I'll stop myself here, because it is getting a bit ranty

 

[Zombu]

While we're at it Wiz, I want Monk's to get Necro pets, and Shaman's to get Mage pets. It only makes sense right? It only makes sense. In the interest of fairness and balance though, I guess I should get a down graded pet, say, level 49 Necro pet at level 30. Wouldn't want to imbalance the game.

Anyway, I'm sure at some point you'll understand what's going on. I hope. You'll realise that it's only the three pure classes that get criticals, and rightly so. Past that there's really nothing more to say. AA's are AA's for a reason. People get them how they want 'em.

I think post gets to the heart of the matter. Wizards get big time burst dps, crits are part of the package. Necros get more versatility and big time duration dps. I play a wizard, I'd like to be able to lich or FD from time to time. That 2300+ crit that person got is pretty big damage for that level, but ice comet has a horrible mana:damage ratio. If your necro spent that much mana, you're likely doing the same damage, maybe more.

About pets: necros, enchanters and mages get pets, wizards don't. They have to rely on aggro from other players (grouped) or snares and roots (solo). mage's have the best pets and can eventually get their pets to crit, but it takes many AAs to get that.

KAS

I'll stop myself here, because it is getting a bit ranty

So if we agree that necro pets are inferior to mage pets, primarily because of the superior inate abilities of mage pets (fire dmg shield, quicker healing, invis, root, etc), shouldn't necro pets make up for it through their warrior abilities?

 

[Rambler]

Zombu, have you ever looked at the mage spell line and your spell line? Your pet is weaker for a reason.