Druid Hots and Dispell
- Thread starter Faelus
- Start date
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Not to take anything away from your accomplishment in doing it without a bard (thumbs up) but having 4/6 characters in your group with a supreme (2 of which are the casters) certainly makes it much much much more feasible as people aren't getting one shot by a single nuke
cian2
Dalayan Master
you are telling me i'm "extremely overtiered" for melek taus? i guess i'll take that as a compliment. i'd be impressed if i'm a top 15 cleric. i'd consider myself to be on the low-end of what is required to beat this fight without class stacking, or perhaps as it was "meant to be." i suspect this fight was designed to be a lot harder than it turned out to be with what i'll conveniently call "ringo's strat"
1) the idea that you have to bring a cleric, shaman, bard is not true. especially these days. only a shaman is 100% absolutely needed class to kill melek taus. a bard opens up your ability to a) use ringos strat and b) bring lower hp toons. that's it.
2) a druid can kill this fight. it is an inconvenience to bring a druid but that's nothing unique to MT or druids.
make no mistake i absolutely hate this fight, who thought random target dev blow was a good idea? this fight is a pretty big revealer in the underlying 6 man problem which banji stated perfectly earlier in the thread. it's very difficult to make a 6 man encounter challenging as characters progress. a long fight with many chances to randomly instantly kill someone is probably not great design - but it wasn't supposed to be easy.
1) the idea that you have to bring a cleric, shaman, bard is not true. especially these days. only a shaman is 100% absolutely needed class to kill melek taus. a bard opens up your ability to a) use ringos strat and b) bring lower hp toons. that's it.
2) a druid can kill this fight. it is an inconvenience to bring a druid but that's nothing unique to MT or druids.
make no mistake i absolutely hate this fight, who thought random target dev blow was a good idea? this fight is a pretty big revealer in the underlying 6 man problem which banji stated perfectly earlier in the thread. it's very difficult to make a 6 man encounter challenging as characters progress. a long fight with many chances to randomly instantly kill someone is probably not great design - but it wasn't supposed to be easy.
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Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
What exactly do you think is the problem with claw commander because last time I checked this is one of the most class indifferent 6 man fights in game.
Wait, whats the problem with CC? We have taken literally every single class, every single combination of tanks and healers, bards no bards, Shaman/Druid/Warrior, we've taken an enchanter, etc. Please explain the issue here.
Also, Im calling the entire group overtiered, because MT is BELOW YOUR TIER. It is not Sanctum/Yclist hard. Your entire group was overgeared for it.
Also, Im calling the entire group overtiered, because MT is BELOW YOUR TIER. It is not Sanctum/Yclist hard. Your entire group was overgeared for it.
Otcho
Dalayan Pious Diety
Pretty sure we even took two enchanters once.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
I don't think that is what he meant, I think he was referring to the 4 toons with Supremes aka the tier 12 wizard/mage and tier 11 paladin/monk.
Also, what druid have you killed Melek Taus with? I am just curious since you are saying with some conviction that it is not an issue at all to bring a druid over a cleric..
cian2
Dalayan Master
For us specifically? I wouldn't drop the cleric or the shaman to bring a druid.
you consider melek taus to be under sanctum? given the gear it drops and the general progression of groups who have killed it, i wouldn't necessarily agree. i do appreciate that you hold PR/dibs in such high regard, but we are miles behind fwf and anyone else is pretty far behind us. this particular group included two toons who are #1 for their class, although 1 of which had never even engaged this boss, probably due to the preconceived notion of this fight being unwinnable without a bard and melee :>
as for CC, it's simply another fight with the sharp curve seen in high tier 6 mans where you outgear it enough to bring anything (FWF) or you don't and have to bring a pretty specific group (us).
Uh, MT was killed back when people were rolling in Thaz/PoF/ToT gear. That is the tier of the fight.
As for cc, We did it with Lindstrom, who is not particularly overgeared, Faelus with a 220k and 8600 mana, Naragako with the same at the time, Kiseble, and I believe Glorax and Kjiel maybe at that time. This was before we touched spires, Kise and Kjiel were barely playing and were under geared. The enchanter, was with Lindstrom, Faelus, and I dont even know. Given, that was more recently.
Point being, there is no particularly sharp curve to CC. Marza did an excellent job making that a well rounded fight, doable with any on tier class combinations.
As for cc, We did it with Lindstrom, who is not particularly overgeared, Faelus with a 220k and 8600 mana, Naragako with the same at the time, Kiseble, and I believe Glorax and Kjiel maybe at that time. This was before we touched spires, Kise and Kjiel were barely playing and were under geared. The enchanter, was with Lindstrom, Faelus, and I dont even know. Given, that was more recently.
Point being, there is no particularly sharp curve to CC. Marza did an excellent job making that a well rounded fight, doable with any on tier class combinations.
Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
Uhhhhhhh, you should see some of the groups we do it with broheim, go fomelo Plaps/Esco/Gesicht/Gordot dreamteam CC cream.
JDJersey
Dalayan Elder
That is the tier of all of eflow, MK maybe being slightly lower. Being able to kill it with that set up doesn't prove anything when all of the characters involved have that kind of gear. Especially when your argument boils down to "You still need 2 of the three even when they're way over geared, but the bard becomes optional."
cian2
Dalayan Master
we've done cc with an enchanter too. we've done it with most classes. to a lower tier guild first learning CC, I would suggest a highly specific group to pretty much ensure victory. Sounds familiar, hmm?
interesting you consider all of EF to be tier 9 though Banji. I found the difference from Bapho to MK to MB to MT to be pretty linear and significant. I think using a melee grp w/ a bard made MT easier than it was originally intended to be. the quality of loot seems to suggest this.
interesting you consider all of EF to be tier 9 though Banji. I found the difference from Bapho to MK to MB to MT to be pretty linear and significant. I think using a melee grp w/ a bard made MT easier than it was originally intended to be. the quality of loot seems to suggest this.
idk why the same 2 guilds argue what is and isnt needed for fights like these when other guilds on the server dont even attempt this stuff or even do the easier fights. IMO they should go do them post whats needed on tier yada yada. You've all been that tier before but when most of you "original" players (not the ones who joined a dying guild and got geared) were doing it as progression there weren't all the vah banner supreme 20 tome + people that are out there now.
I know MT is dumb but why try to change it now that its such little concern to you and not push for it forever ago.
I know MT is dumb but why try to change it now that its such little concern to you and not push for it forever ago.
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Obscenitor
Dalayan Elder
I care because I have done this on tier and have struggled with the restrictive nature of it. The worst part of it was the marginal benefit that you get from doing it as a guild progressing through this tier of 6 man (due to the restrictive nature and the mountains of rotting loot).
No one pushed for it because the Dev that made it has not been active for almost 3 years. However, having seen Sanctum redone entirely (same retired Dev) I figured now would be an appropriate time for this.
I am honored to have an encounter that people hate named after my Necromancer from Innoruuk server on live from 13 years ago.
On another note, some dev apparently has read the Satanic Bible.
On another note, I have no idea what any of you are talking about, and I think that is just plain wonderful.
I agree with everything that has been said in this thread and not just because I am drinking a fabulous glass of Japanese made Single Malt "scotch" (who knew).
On another note, some dev apparently has read the Satanic Bible.
On another note, I have no idea what any of you are talking about, and I think that is just plain wonderful.
I agree with everything that has been said in this thread and not just because I am drinking a fabulous glass of Japanese made Single Malt "scotch" (who knew).
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
What I was told several times by a few different people was melek taus gear was intended to fill the gaps in gear slots from the earlier sanctum bosses. And while some of the loot does, some of it is also not that great (the wrist, in particular is kind of "meh", and the back is basically a thaz 2 back with a different focus).
Also, nwaij and sintasia drastically over gear that fight. Without mots, an on tier caster will get insta gibbed by db (which is really really dumb, and I saw it happen to Meso a ton, even with full sanctum gear).
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