Druid DoTs, Rains, and the spell line that never was

donfolstar3

donfolstar3

Dalayan Master
Druid dots and how generally disliked they are come up fairly frequently, here are two threads from the last year that mention it if anyone wants/needs a refresher:

http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=25620
http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/showthread.php?t=25312

Mission Statement:
The purpose of asking for a change is to put some focus on the grab bag of randomness that is Druid DPS, making the class more consistent in regards to gameplay and lore. The purpose of this thread is to take a look at the existing druid dots, explore other possibilities which suit the class better, and produce some reasonable suggestions for change.
I bolded some points of general bugginess in the event some dev sees this and has zero interest in changing dots but is open to fixing some general stuff.


Meet the Dots (info from wiki & looking at spellbook) plus comments

1. Fire DoTs
The fire line of dots for Druids includes Flame Lick (1), Immolate (29), and Breath of Tarhyl (52) and each includes some type of AC/resist debuff. The line is "replaced" by Disempowering line of fire based debuffs at 44, 56, 62, and Archaic plus a single Defensive (the only such non-Enchanter spell) called Tarhyl's Fiery Sundering (39) which is similar do the others but -200 resist.

-The Defensive spell is probably just an error that was meant to be Disempowering?
-Overall this line seems good. Each spell reduces AC, ATK, Fire resist, or does damage and it changes as you level and there is nothing wrong with that. A slight resist mods for Enclosure (62) would be swell, but that's about it.

2. Swarm DoTs
The swarm line of dots are long duration low damage dots Druids receive at 14, 34, 44, 53, 61, and Relic. They are magic based and include a sizable -100 resist mod.
2.2. Creeping Crud?
This spell (24) is probably part of the Swarm line given the similar stats, same animation, and gap in the swarm line, though it has a different icon for some reason.

-Again, the Creeping Crud thing is probably just an oversight.
-These spells are generally agreed by most Druids to be awful. A few Druids will talk them up based off nostalgia or something, but in the end these dots are leftovers from something Live tacked on for ??? reasons.
-Long cast times make them less than ideal for use while healing, the slow damage is bad for xp groups, and iirc the spells say really nasty things about the devs when you cast them [citation needed].
-Going to Erimal all bright eyed and optimistic then getting Doomswarm is a major kick in the balls.
-The rest of this post will be about possible replacements for these spells.


Alternatives.
Several good ideas have been offered by others. I am not claiming ownership of these ideas but I am also not going to track down and credit everyone. It is a fine balance between humility and laziness.

1. Zealot's DoT
The idea of leaving the Swarm dots but adding some mana cost and a similar mechanic to Zealots Strike (heals the targets target, i.e. the tank) was kicked around and generally liked. I am hesitant to mention this idea since Z recently washed her hands of the Zealot mechanic, but the lore aspect of Druids summoning bugs that bite enemies then poop/vomit healing juice all over the tank is too good.
-Please do not use this as a springboard to a Druid v. Cleric or whatever tangent. It would be really minor healing and everyone knows healers are fine minus how piss poor chloroshock is on efficiency/throughput.

2. Have you ever seen the Rain?
Druids have rains spanning from Cascade of Hail (14) to Blizzard (54) and even have a Fire rain (49) hiding in there before they just stop. Even more perplexing, Druids get Fist of Shiritri (63) which is an orange gemmed magic spell that has a cold spell icon and is not a rain...
-Druids should really get a rain past 54 since they are #2 in the land of rain makers. Runic2 is kind of a rain (I lost track of the changes), but that is a ridiculous gap.
-Ideally Shiritri or Winter's Claim (62) could be made into a rain since both have rain like information on the wiki parser. That would fill the gap.
-That or some 55+ rains, cold and fire to replace the high level DoTs then just delete/ignore the rest.

3. I can't get no Calefaction
Calefaction (44) is a fast casting (.5) medium recast (12) nuke that does not receive a single upgrade. This is unfortunate since
-Seeing an upgrade or two to this line would be great! The short cast time makes it usable while healing while the recast/cost keep it from getting out of hand. Possibly replace the 53, 61, and Relic dots with one fire and two ice based spells that are similar (Incalescence, Frost Bite, and Cold Snap)
-From a class/lore perspective it fits right in with the nukes Druids already have and is not just some terrible tagged on DoT sitting in the corner all awkward.


Discuss!
 
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sorry bro but in the last druid suck thread you guys said you didnt care about dotting mobs you cared about healing.
 
druid dots are a carry over from live (where you could actually kite real hard mobs)

but a whole lot of harder things summon here and no one wants to kite the mobs that dont (blue con crocs in remnants)
 
What Druids really need is come back down to earth,they get the best Damageshields,hp and
sta regen buffs and the best HoTs which make them indispensable in raids,not to mention
all the utility stuff they get,I will only mention ports here which are an invaluable time saver.
Originally their role was jack of all trades and they need to be cut down to this role badly and
not get *more* power ups,meaning tone their damage shields down to cause lesser damage
than Mage's ones,regen should be exclusivly go to shamans,just delete this line of spells
from Druids,HoT duration should be lowered to 4 ticks as Clerics and Pallies get it.
 
Ulandx said:
What Druids really need is come back down to earth,they get the best Damageshields,hp and
sta regen buffs and the best HoTs which make them indispensable in raids,not to mention
all the utility stuff they get,I will only mention ports here which are an invaluable time saver.
Originally their role was jack of all trades and they need to be cut down to this role badly and
not get *more* power ups,meaning tone their damage shields down to cause lesser damage
than Mage's ones,regen should be exclusivly go to shamans,just delete this line of spells
from Druids,HoT duration should be lowered to 4 ticks as Clerics and Pallies get it.
Click to expand...
It's weird how this guy always shows up to druid threads complaining about how good they are
 
yea lets cut down on classes and remove abilities until each class has only 4 major spell lines then we can pretend we are playing league of legends or DOTA
 
Dibs on meathook and stasis traps.

Really though, the only thing that should happen to druids imo, is their dam fast heal needs to be increased :(
 
Rorne said:
It's weird how this guy always shows up to druid threads complaining about how good they are
Click to expand...

Why is that weird,its just annoying how they are good from level 1 to tier 14 unlike any other
class.
Cleric still suck badly before they get 65 and a hefty numbers of AAs,where as Druids get all
their class defining stuff right from leaving the dream.
Ever played a Shaman at 55 for some time like I did and some of my friends still do ? They make
the entire (adept) raid waiting because almost all of their buffs are single target.
 
"Druids get all their class defining stuff right from leaving the dream"

Like 14 levels until a DoT line that starts weak and ends even weaker on the Relic level? Perhaps if you think your class is broken you should try and fix it instead of bringing everyone down to your perceived level. Talk about living in the crab bucket.

Four spell lines? No. Druids have heals, quick heals, group heals, hots, group hots, big heals, rains, nukes, ports, speed buffs, and a whole bunch of other shit. It would be nice if Druids did less shit but better. Who really wants do inferior dots to add to the inferior rains and inferior nukes while other classes have well defined, useful, secondary roles?
 
Ulandx said:
Why is that weird,its just annoying how they are good from level 1 to tier 14 unlike any other
class.
Cleric still suck badly before they get 65 and a hefty numbers of AAs,where as Druids get all
their class defining stuff right from leaving the dream.
Ever played a Shaman at 55 for some time like I did and some of my friends still do ? They make
the entire (adept) raid waiting because almost all of their buffs are single target.
Click to expand...

So let's ignore what this guy says, and use the principle of charity here.

I think what hes trying to say, is that druids get a bunch of really cool neat utility stuff that clerics dont. Shamans get cool neat stuff but it costs lots of mana, and it takes forever to cast early on (buffs.) And all of this pre 65 etc.

Well I wouldn't say clerics suck leveling up, i'd say the opposite. Clerics are 1 dimensional. Druids can do a number of things early on which really just come up as 'flavor' post 65. Shamans just do a ton of things.

Actually come to think of it this reminds me very heavily of a paladin/sk comparison tangent from awhile back, where everyone just flat out chose to ignore things like FD, as they weren't "class defining for tanks." (please, I don't want to start this up again, just using it for a basis for comparison)

Taking that into this context, druids get a lot of really cool stuff clerics don't. As a cleric, I am fine with this. Then again, i'm more of a black and white guy, who would rather have a tank thats really good at tanking, a healer really good at healing, a dps really good at dpsing, and a utility class that does all else, over a class that can kinda sorta do all these things.

I do *think* I see where hes coming from though if i'm interpreting his babble corecctly, but I don't see it as a problem.

I would again beg for druids to get their fast heal amount massively boosted, as who the hell is that fast heal going to save???
 
Anyway, there is one thing need to fix at least.
Druid rain spell is NOT rain.
Fix its category and spell icon(Rain -> AoE DD) or... whatever.
 
Ulandx said:
Druids get all their class defining stuff right from leaving the dream.
Click to expand...

This is not the case. For just one example, druid healing style changes completely at 65. Before druids get their ancient and relic hots, they are primarily a direct healing class, very similar to shaman in style and function, except with no canni. It is only after a good bit of time at 65 (depending on how lucky they are at getting ancient and relic spell scrolls) that they change into using heals over time as the main staple of their main role.

I would say druids actually change the way they do their main job more than just about any other class.
 
saintonan said:
This is not the case. For just one example, druid healing style changes completely at 65. Before druids get their ancient and relic hots, they are primarily a direct healing class, very similar to shaman in style and function, except with no canni. It is only after a good bit of time at 65 (depending on how lucky they are at getting ancient and relic spell scrolls) that they change into using heals over time as the main staple of their main role.

I would say druids actually change the way they do their main job more than just about any other class.
Click to expand...

Just had the occasion to watch a new player leveling his Druid from 55 to 65 and now AA xp'ing
in DN,I rarely see him using other heals than the HoT,and so do I on my 55/130 Druid.
Shaman style and function? You mean like Shaman GROUP and COMPLETE heals ? :)
 
Since the core point of this thread (Doomswarm sucks) seems to be something people are bipolar about and a consensus will never be made, could the various bugs I mentioned in the OP be looked at? Pretty please? They are minor things but bugs all the same. Here they are again:

donfolstar3 said:
The line is "replaced" by Disempowering line of fire based debuffs at 44, 56, 62, and Archaic plus a single Defensive (the only such non-Enchanter spell) called Tarhyl's Fiery Sundering (39) which is similar do the others but -200 resist.
-The Defensive spell is probably just an error that was meant to be Disempowering?

2.2. Creeping Crud?
This spell (24) is probably part of the Swarm line given the similar stats, same animation, and gap in the swarm line, though it has a different icon for some reason.

Druids get Fist of Shiritri (63) which is an orange gemmed magic spell that has a cold spell icon and is not a rain...
Click to expand...
 
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