Druid Charm

[Iliangur]

I'm not just crapping on the idea here, but I just don't see how a change like this would be fair to enc or necros.

 

[booster]

pls pls pls dont remove my frog.

 

[Wulamdar]

I still think it would be imbalanced. So what if the random_animal doesn't hit the hardest in a zone? With a ds and ability to heal it, you and that pet would have more staying power than an enchanter or necro.

This is already the case. Increased levels on the charm doesn't change this fact. If you feel it's imbalanced, then it's already imbalanced. And if I'm charming something, I would charm the strongest thing I could find and keep it around. The fact that animals are never the best charming options, unless it's the closest thing around, means that Enchanters will still be able to obtain the better pets. And you can charm in every zone where I can charm in 10.

Also, I may be wrong here, but I think mobs lose some power while charmed? So even if mob A hits the hardest while charmed, it's not going to do that while it's charmed, and when it breaks (and likely summons the necro/enc), it's gonna pwn face on the caster.

They're limited to 2 attacks per round and haste capped. They actually hit harder against other NPCs since they don't have the same AC as players (something along those lines). An undead iksar in Remnants will hit me for 330s but can hit another undead iksar for over 500. And this charm breaking/summoning issue is already in place. Again, raising Druid charm does not change this and Druids are subjected to the same issues.

And while you can't charm non-animals, with track you can zoom straight to whatever mob you do want to charm, so there being "so few" animals is kind of a moot point. Enc/necro have to hunt around for whatever they're going to charm, unless they're either lucky or take whatever's closest and hope to chain charm.

Tracking helps alleviate the 'so few' problem, but this is still how things are. I understand what you're saying and it is a big advantage being able to track. I keep mentioning how few animals this would effect to show you the real implications of this are not as unbalancing as you seem to think.

If we're talking about 65/65+ exp, then we're basically talking about Ikisith charming, and I'm pretty sure there are animals in all of those outdoor zones. While necro's can charm to 58, they get life taps to heal and feign death, but not legit heal's or regens like druids do. Plus being a cloth class their sustainability while being pounded on is among the weakest, like other caster classes.

Mainly Ikisith zones, Remnants in particular, since they are the higher level outdoor areas. You realize I can already charm in all those places? There are already pet options available to me. And Sateru is right, there are plenty of animals that will out dps the murk pet already. Increasing the charm a few levels only opens up a few more options. Seriously, I'm guessing less than 10 animal types would become charmable with something like this in Ikisith. It might open up other options in the old world, like in Kedge, the plaguelands, and possibly PoEarth (are those mobs even charmable?).

If we do boost druids then enc should get a boost above 58, or a longer duration, boost to charmed pet power, ability to heal it, or whatever slippery slope aspect you wanna talk about.

I don't think one effects the other in this case, mostly because the real effect of something like this would be pretty limited. If you want to create a thread with ideas to increase Enchanters charm ability then you should discuss ideas in that thread. You claim that raising the charm level would be imbalanced and I've tried to show that isn't really the case. Druid charm might already be imbalanced in your eyes, and increasing the level would add to that, but the increase by itself isn't the root of the issue and is rather marginal.

I created this thread with selfish intentions and definitely didn't think the idea through. I try to charm animals when I can and get sadfaced when it tells me the animal is too high level. I'm pretty biased on this idea, and can't be too objective since I have limited charming experience with other characters, especially Enchanters. I rarely solo while charming and haven't been considering the advantages that Druids have in that aspect.

I get the impression that charm isn't utilized that often. Charming is one of the main draws of being an Enchanter so maybe there should be a discussion to improve their ability to charm or to make it more available to them. I've always enjoyed charming since it tends to be the best DoT around. The murk pet has definitely reduced the charming advantage and maybe Druids don't need their charm increased. I just figured I'd spitball the idea and see what came of it.

 

[Rorne]

I get the impression that charm isn't utilized that often. Charming is one of the main draws of being an Enchanter so maybe there should be a discussion to improve their ability to charm or to make it more available to them.it.

Sadly this can't happen because they are now considered to be suffering from "Bard Syndrome" where they can't be buffed in one area because they have received too many buffs in another. Basically the reason enchanters especially are against this idea is because charming ability gained by another class indirectly diminishes the value of enchanter charming.

They're limited to 2 attacks per round and haste capped. They actually hit harder against other NPCs since they don't have the same AC as players (something along those lines). An undead iksar in Remnants will hit me for 330s but can hit another undead iksar for over 500. And this charm breaking/summoning issue is already in place. Again, raising Druid charm does not change this and Druids are subjected to the same issues.

Yes but druids benefit from innate DR from AAs and have the ability to heal themselves.

 

[Wulamdar]

I suppose I should point out that the Necro and Enchanter that I have used in the past has been Glorax or Zorlon, not exactly the 'average' character for the respective classes. I'll admit I'm a bit out of touch with the 'normal' charming experience for each class.

 

[Iliangur]

I'm not quite to fwf level but I'm certainly above the "average" gear/aa/tome for enchanters currently on the server. I charm pretty often, as groups are often hard to find.

I do understand that you can charm in those zones, so I guess this would just be to diminish your being annoyed by stuff being too high? I understand that, I'll charm crap in murk only to get "your target is immune" on certain mosquitos etc. that don't really seem to make sense.

I guess I may just be being territorial, as I mentioned in my first post here enchanter's are eclipsed in every other dps area by all the other casters / bards / druids for kiting / nuking / dots / whatever. Charming is one of the few area's that enchanter's abilities excel vs. other classes and it just feels like this would diminish one of the few things that define my class in non-raid situations. I don't mean to imply that a druid's ability to charm would prevent enchanters from doing so etc. But with everything else that druids can do comparatively, it just seems unfair to boost their charming abilities too - especially with the murk pet that's already far and above what an enchanter can do with no risk (i.e. our only pet option really is to charm, animations are worthless).

 

[Wulamdar]

I don't consider you an 'average' geared character and that wasn't a swipe at you in anyway, not that I think you took it as such. Just wanted to make that clear for anyone else reading this thread.

Anytime I charm I'm always duoing. I've never taken Zorlon out and tried to charm for some experience by himself. So when I think of charming I naturally assume there's a healer, too. I can understand how it would be frustrating to see a Druid running around Remnants with a 3/400 hitting pet and being more effective than an Enchanter running around with his undead iksar or even the same pet.

You've basically summed up exactly where the idea for this thread came from. I see an animal, or 'sense' one, and try to charm. Oh, it's too high? Well fuck I'll go charm that other thing over there then. Druid charm is fine as it is. I would like to be able to charm more things, but I'm not an Enchanter so I'll take what I can get. Considering the Murk pet is now the best DoT in game for us, we're doing okay for ourselves.

 

[Iliangur]

Yea I didnt take anything as a swipe.

Given that there are fewer lower lvl mobs in the Ikisith zones we're talking about, raising the general charming lvl may be a good idea, and then differentiate the different classes between both what type of mobs they can charm (animals / undead / everything) as well as some sort of charm power (maybe through a necro the charmed pets channel a life tap or dot or something, with other fun kinda class specific things for druid / enchanters / bards).