Discussion: Tradeskill Armor Changes

Tempus

Tempus

Staff Emeritus
*** This is not the place for you to whine about nerfs! ***

Myself along with some other staff members have worked together to rebalance the high-end tradeskill armors. We did this by comparing it to COMMON drops from Tier 2 & Tier 3 raid targets (Reference: http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php?topic=10565.msg78169#msg78169), and to drops from high end exp zones like FR, Rust, HHK, etc. While, keeping in mind that all TS items have 2 augment slots versus dropped items only having one augment slot. Yes, this mean to get the full power out of any Tradeskilled item you will need to buy 2 augments, and that is intended.

The purpose of this thread is to point out any imbalances in the items bearing what I have posted above in mind. This requires you to provide stats and factual data for any item you have an issue with, and NOT just whine about a perceived imbalance or that the items were reduced in raw Mana / Hps / Ac.
 
I'm curious as to which tradeskilled armor Druids are supposed to wear, from a lore standpoint I had always believed that druids were supposed to wear Imphide over Shadowsilk, but the stats weren't there.

Imp Hide Full Suit is a total of 34 Wis, an increase of 15 over what it used to be.
Imp Hide Full Suitis a total of 485 Mana, an increase of 300 over what it used to be.

While Shadowsilk is (in refernce to Wis casters, druids in particular)
Shadowsilk Full Suit is a total of 60 Wis, a decrease of 36 over what it used to be.
Shadowsilk Full Suitis a total of 630 Mana, a decrease of 180 over what it used to be.

To me that means that druids in particular suffer with these changes in tradeskill armor, since if they are just barely at max wis, wearing SS Suit costs them 396mana from what it used to be for a total of 990mana (Assuming 6 mana per wis).

Imp Hide suit would give them a total of 689 mana (Assuming 6 mana per wis).

I focus this post mainly on druids since I the other wis casters (Shaman and Cleric) can both wear Deepmetal Chain/Plate and I'm unsure of the changes made to it so am unable to make an opinion on that, perhaps Kerolynne or another smith could look at pre and post patch stats to tell us if either of those suits is viable for wis casters or other classes in particular.
 
Tempus designed the tradeskilled armor not so that each clas would best benefit from using one particular set, but so that players might be best served by combining different pieces from different sets. This in part helped overcome some imbalances introduced by the idea that all the armor sets should appeal equally to every class that can use them (for instance, making deepmetal plate the best thing for both warriors and clerics tended to make it overpowered for paladins).

As a druid (ora monk), you will find that in some cases, imp hide is much better. In other cases, shadow silk is.

Clerics and Shamans might both find that sometimes imp hide works better than chain, and sometimes plate is a better option for clerics.

Gone are the days where you'd just seek out a full set of one type - unless you are a Warrior or an Int Caster.
 
Allie, is absolutely correct.

The only classes that should only use items from one set are Int casters really. Even Warriors might find a piece of Deepmetal Chain or Imp Hide to be a better fit for them in certain slots, but most likely the choice for warriors will be the Platemail for the higher base AC.

You will notice that EVERY SS piece that lost Wisdom, has a corresponding Imp Hide piece with Wisdom now. It was absurd to have basically every priest and int caster solely using Shadow Silk out of the Tradeskill Armor Choices.
 
So pretty much only int casters should be restricted to only 1 set? :psyduck: I'll wait to see if tailored armor sells anymore before I decide for sure. /shrug
 
panthernoswar said:
So pretty much only int casters should be restricted to only 1 set? :psyduck: I'll wait to see if tailored armor sells anymore before I decide for sure. /shrug
Click to expand...

You understand that Monks / Beastlords and Druids all have to wear tailored armor too (Imp and SS mixed), and that some Imp items will be better for rogues, rangers, shaman and clerics than the Chain items will be right?

So that is a grand total of 11 classes (WIZ ENC NEC MAG DRU BST MNK RNG ROG CLR SHM) that will get the most benefit from using at least a few to all Tailored items, and 8 Classes (WAR PAL SHD BRD CLR SHM RNG ROG) that will get the most beneft from using at least a few to all Smithed items. You will notice that as already explained, there is a greater reason to mix and match from multiple different sets depending on what class you are. If you think this some how hurts Tailoring or Smithing then you are just here to complain about something and haven't taken the time to really think about it.
 
I was wrong in assuming druid armor was worse than casters when you including mixing at matching druids come out ahead of pure int casters, but I still feel extremly sorry for all those that got caught in this change and have to sell certain pieces of Shadowsilk that they have for extremely cheap prices if they were lucky not to have already bound the item to themselves. (And yes, I've seen people selling SS/Imp gear for around 750 snce BoE changes went in)

I'm mostly worried on how both of these changes together will effect the demand of tradeskilled goods.
 
panthernoswar said:
(And yes, I've seen people selling SS/Imp gear for around 750 snce BoE changes went in)

I'm mostly worried on how both of these changes together will effect the demand of tradeskilled goods.
Click to expand...

Considering that they now vendor for more than that, and the fact that they will pawn for more than that once Wiz adds in the pawn NPC's for BoE items. The people who fire sold stuff for 750 made a terrible business decision.
 
I'd love to have people post screenshots/stats from the new DM chainmail stuff.

It was a pretty lackluster set before the change (for a shaman at least), but I've noticed on fomelo (Sniglefritz) that the legs are much much better suited for a caster now. It actually seems they are the best tradeskilled legs for a shaman or a cleric.

However, since it was lackluster, no one even bothered to buy DM chain, and I have rarely ever seen anything but the leggings for sale (I think I sold mine to Sniglefritz or Waldoff at the time). It would be cool if "those" that knew could post some insight on them.
 
Is there any chance that the overall changes or stats can just be posted? For instance, originally the SS set was reduced by 115 mana.
 
I'd love to have people post screenshots/stats from the new DM chainmail stuff.
Click to expand...

Sure. I'll get my miner bots to work, and make all deepmetal (plate and chain) & update the Wiki later today.
 
Danku said:
Is there any chance that the overall changes or stats can just be posted? For instance, originally the SS set was reduced by 115 mana.
Click to expand...

Lets get it accurate:

Tempus said:
So losing 200 mana would not be a major Downgrade right? As it stands right now, unless something changes drastically the entire SS set of armor lost a total of 115 mana across the entire suit.

The actual changes will be live soon and I will post more details in a new thread once that happens. For now this one is closed.
Click to expand...

I said unless something changes, I upped the charisma across the set by 19points and it actually gained 1 int.

The question at hand is not how much total the sets changed, but rather are there any specific items that are now out of balance based on the parameters listed in my original post.
 
Yona said:
Can you also take care of this then ? or is it just a smith/tailor thread ?
Click to expand...

If you want to make a JC suggestion feel free to do it in another thread, and stop derailing this one.
 
Deepmetal Armor

Okay, 250 smith, finally posting on the DM "nerf". I held back on posting to see what it was like... so now, you want comparisons, hope you can post really long threads here.

Let's start with the most obvious... warp versus DM AC on boots.

Warpmetal Platemail Boots
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FEET
AC: 17
STR: +3 STA: +3 HP: +10
SV DISEASE: +2 SV MAGIC: +2
Recommended Level: 30
WT: 6.1 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL

Old DM boots:

Deepmetal Platemail Boots
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FEET
AC: 19
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 5 STA: 10 CHA: 7 HP: 60 MANA: 60
SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 9.1 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty

New DM boots:
Deepmetal Platemail Boots
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FEET
AC: 17
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 7 STA: 5 WIS: 5 INT: 3 AGI:7 HP: 45 MANA: 45
SV Fire: 3 Sv Cold: 3 SV Magic: 5
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 9.1 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty

Versus Tier 2-3 stuff... it's comparable. WTF did the AC get nerfed though? Put that back, the boots were the lowest seller anyway. Or make it 18!

Second lowest seller... helm. One simple reason. Dear <insert diety>, this isn't even a raid mob...

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM
Slot: HEAD
AC: 24
Effect: Rampage (Must Equip. Casting Time: 7.0)
STR: +3 DEX: +3 STA: +3 AGI: +3 HP: +45
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +10 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10
Recommended Level of 50. WT: 0.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1: Type 2

Deepmetal Platemail Helm
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: FEET
AC: 20
This item is made with tradeskills.
STA: 10 CHA: 7 CHA: 7 WIS: 4 INT:4 HP: 50 MANA: 60
SV Fire:1 Sv Cold: 1 SV Magic: 3
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 10.5 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty

To be honest... the changes overall are good. Put an AC or two back. Otherwise, you effectively made DM very low on the totem pole. Why not keep boots at 18? Small slots are *easily* filled by droppables.

Okay, BP time...

Deepmetal Platemail Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: CHEST
AC: 38
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 7 STA: 7 AGI: 7 DEX: 7 CHA: 7 HP: 85 MANA: 85
SV Magic: 10
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 25 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty

New one...

Deepmetal Platemail Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: CHEST
AC: 38
This item is made with tradeskills.
STR: 10 STA: 10 CHA: 5 AGI: 10 HP: 75 MANA: 55
SV Fire: 2 SV Disease: 2 SV ColdL 2 SV Magic: 6 SV Poison: 2
Recommended Level: 45
WT: 25 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type2: empty
Slot 2, type2: empty

Umm.... I was gonna be one of the first to bitch, moan & complain. However. Compare old stats, new stats, and other than raw AC, which is fixable with augs, and unchanged on BP, tell me why these are these nerfs? IMHO, they're not. They may have lowered a bit of AC, but put resists never there before, and other stats never there before...

Sorry, wanted to whine, and can't. ><
 
Curious.. have you seen a increase in boots sales since the Turtles gear went no drop?

Tacking on a AC or 2 to the boots seems in line to me. Specialy when one considers the boots off Easy and Diff tmaps.
 
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