Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I'm only going to deal with T12+ raid mobs here.
The point is to better understand how players rank raid boss difficulty. If there is a lot of interest, I may keep updating this, but the end goal here is to help understand and achieve desired risk/reward from high end raid bosses. There have been a lot of changes, and I think certain things have become unbalanced over time in terms of mobs either being too hard or too easy as compared to the loot they drop.
I'm going to give each raid boss three rankings. Each ranking will range from 1 to 10. Gear Ranking basically describes how much of a "gear check" a given fight is, a ranking of 1 means that if you execute correctly and are anywhere near the correct tier you can win, whereas a 10 means that if you are the correct tier, and do everything right, you can expect to barely scrape by on this fight, totally OOM and having probably used COTB and other oh-shit clickies/cooldowns.
Skill ranking is essentially how complex the fight is, how much an individual's mistakes can impact the rest of the raid, how much room for error the raid has, etc, a ranking of 1 indicates a low skill check fight, you could probably beat it with 9 on tier people boxing two toons, and a ranking of 10 indicates a very high skill check, where individual mistakes will likely cause an entire raid wipe.
Loot ranking is how much/awesome the loot is as compared to the gear check / skill check. A ranking of 1 is something like Prime Enchanter, where you only really kill it for progression, the loot may be nice too, but it is just not enough to justify the difficulty of the fight in and of itself. A 10 ranking is a easier mob with really nice loot.
*obviously this is all pretty subjective, I welcome any suggestions for changes*
For reference, I'm going to clump some T11 fights together and rank them as a frame of reference, and comparison, since things tend to get much harder at T12+
Sanctum First 4:
Gear: 7
Skill: 5
Loot: 7
Gear check is pretty high on these, skill varys a lot with eyes being pretty high, and gongo being a lot lower. Loot overall is pretty good.
Spires:
Gear: 3
Skill: 5
Loot: 9
Gear check in general in spires is quite low, with a few exceptions. Skill also varies a lot, but most fights are fairly simple. With 100% bracer drop rates, plus opuses, the loot per effort/time is simply amazing.
Saitha:
Gear: 7
Skill: 4
Loot: 8
Really rough fight on the tank, but with some good healing and persistence/luck the gear check isn't crazy. Easy fight to box, and really amazing loot when you first see it, almost everything is a major upgrade.
NZ:
Gear: 2
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Low gear check, but starting to involve more strat/movement/skill than the previous stuff. Very large and interesting loot table, with lots of things that are still considered best-in-slot.
Custo:
Gear: 8
Skill: 7
Loot: 6
High gear and skill check, loot used to seem amazing before turuj/spires, but now its not quite as good. *Hardmode probably ups all these numbers by one.
Tar'Loc:
Gear: 2
Skill: 2
Loot: 8
Loot isn't *the best*, but considering how easy this tribe is, its pretty awesome. This is like a freebie loots for catching it up, and having killed Saitha.
Ok'Tar:
Gear: 3
Skill: 3
Loot: 7
Similar to Tar'Loc. A bit more complicated and time consuming for the same loot table.
Kal'Tan:
Gear: 5
Skill: 4
Loot: 8
Getting a bit harder, but still pretty simple once you have the strat. Really amazing loot for the effort.
Gru'Niet:
Gear: 3
Skill: 4
Loot: 9
Even easier, for more awesome loot and tomes.
Ghan:
Gear: 5
Skill: 5
Loot: 7
A bit harder of a fight, still awesome loot per effort.
Gan:
Gear: 4
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Fun/Funny fight. Very random, but definitely influenced by skill more than a lot of the above. Still great loot for how the difficulty.
Ju'Bor:
Gear: 7
Skill: 6
Loot: 2
This one isn't a giant skill or gear check, but it is long and tedious, with very random mechanics, and has same loot as the first tribes, which can both be done in half the time.
Shar'Nok:
Gear: 4
Skill: 9
Loot: 4
Still remains one of the highest skill check fights in the game IMO. The loot certainly provides some upgrades, but for only 1 item, this fight often doesn't seem worth it compared to the other options out there.
Rujik:
Gear: 9
Skill: 8
Loot: 8
Rujik is a really solid fight. Leaves you OOM on-tier, high skill check, and awesome loot in return for the difficulty of the fight.
Undead Taeshlin:
Gear: 7
Skill: 8
Loot: 8
Overall another high risk high reward fight. Entire loot table has been nerfed, and yet its still a very desirable/rewarding mob to kill.
Blazewind:
Gear: 8
Skill: 9
Loot: 8
High gear check, high individual skill check, good rewards.
OG Warden/Researcher:
Gear: 8
Skill: 6
Loot: *Not enough data to be sure*
Currently this is the highest DPS check in the game that FWF has killed. Its not super complex it tedious, but requires careful/skilled play by most of the raid. I don't know where this is supposed to fit into the overall progression scheme of the game, but given how high the gear check is right now, and the fact that it drops 1 loot, IDK how great the loot is. The shoulders seem fairly good, not crazy stats, but channeling will always be desired/worn. The arms seemed very underwhelming for the fight, compared to the ones ghan drops which seem equally good, from a much easier fight.
Infested Monstrosity:
Gear: 8
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Another overall good end-game boss. High gear check, moderately high skill check, some awesome loot, and other pieces that don't seem to fit anywhere well, but are still good.
As I said above, this is all subjective, but I don't think its too far from reality. I'm open to any suggestions/critique. I don't think all mobs should have equal risk/reward. Part of my reason for posting is that I wonder how much my/other players view of risk/reward corresponds with the Dev Team's view of risk/reward. There is kind of a "Thaz Effect" in place right now where players can get tons of awesome loot *and* opuses without too much difficulty in the T11-12 range, so progressing beyond this point just doesn't feel like a good use of time to many players. Its hard to resist killing all those mobs whenever they are up especially since everyone "wants/needs" an essentially endless amount of opuses, and higher tier targets don't actually continue to drop them. For this reason alone, FWF has, and will continue to raid these tiers basically forever, or until an alternative/higher tier way of obtaining opuses is in game.
The point is to better understand how players rank raid boss difficulty. If there is a lot of interest, I may keep updating this, but the end goal here is to help understand and achieve desired risk/reward from high end raid bosses. There have been a lot of changes, and I think certain things have become unbalanced over time in terms of mobs either being too hard or too easy as compared to the loot they drop.
I'm going to give each raid boss three rankings. Each ranking will range from 1 to 10. Gear Ranking basically describes how much of a "gear check" a given fight is, a ranking of 1 means that if you execute correctly and are anywhere near the correct tier you can win, whereas a 10 means that if you are the correct tier, and do everything right, you can expect to barely scrape by on this fight, totally OOM and having probably used COTB and other oh-shit clickies/cooldowns.
Skill ranking is essentially how complex the fight is, how much an individual's mistakes can impact the rest of the raid, how much room for error the raid has, etc, a ranking of 1 indicates a low skill check fight, you could probably beat it with 9 on tier people boxing two toons, and a ranking of 10 indicates a very high skill check, where individual mistakes will likely cause an entire raid wipe.
Loot ranking is how much/awesome the loot is as compared to the gear check / skill check. A ranking of 1 is something like Prime Enchanter, where you only really kill it for progression, the loot may be nice too, but it is just not enough to justify the difficulty of the fight in and of itself. A 10 ranking is a easier mob with really nice loot.
*obviously this is all pretty subjective, I welcome any suggestions for changes*
For reference, I'm going to clump some T11 fights together and rank them as a frame of reference, and comparison, since things tend to get much harder at T12+
Sanctum First 4:
Gear: 7
Skill: 5
Loot: 7
Gear check is pretty high on these, skill varys a lot with eyes being pretty high, and gongo being a lot lower. Loot overall is pretty good.
Spires:
Gear: 3
Skill: 5
Loot: 9
Gear check in general in spires is quite low, with a few exceptions. Skill also varies a lot, but most fights are fairly simple. With 100% bracer drop rates, plus opuses, the loot per effort/time is simply amazing.
Saitha:
Gear: 7
Skill: 4
Loot: 8
Really rough fight on the tank, but with some good healing and persistence/luck the gear check isn't crazy. Easy fight to box, and really amazing loot when you first see it, almost everything is a major upgrade.
NZ:
Gear: 2
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Low gear check, but starting to involve more strat/movement/skill than the previous stuff. Very large and interesting loot table, with lots of things that are still considered best-in-slot.
Custo:
Gear: 8
Skill: 7
Loot: 6
High gear and skill check, loot used to seem amazing before turuj/spires, but now its not quite as good. *Hardmode probably ups all these numbers by one.
Tar'Loc:
Gear: 2
Skill: 2
Loot: 8
Loot isn't *the best*, but considering how easy this tribe is, its pretty awesome. This is like a freebie loots for catching it up, and having killed Saitha.
Ok'Tar:
Gear: 3
Skill: 3
Loot: 7
Similar to Tar'Loc. A bit more complicated and time consuming for the same loot table.
Kal'Tan:
Gear: 5
Skill: 4
Loot: 8
Getting a bit harder, but still pretty simple once you have the strat. Really amazing loot for the effort.
Gru'Niet:
Gear: 3
Skill: 4
Loot: 9
Even easier, for more awesome loot and tomes.
Ghan:
Gear: 5
Skill: 5
Loot: 7
A bit harder of a fight, still awesome loot per effort.
Gan:
Gear: 4
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Fun/Funny fight. Very random, but definitely influenced by skill more than a lot of the above. Still great loot for how the difficulty.
Ju'Bor:
Gear: 7
Skill: 6
Loot: 2
This one isn't a giant skill or gear check, but it is long and tedious, with very random mechanics, and has same loot as the first tribes, which can both be done in half the time.
Shar'Nok:
Gear: 4
Skill: 9
Loot: 4
Still remains one of the highest skill check fights in the game IMO. The loot certainly provides some upgrades, but for only 1 item, this fight often doesn't seem worth it compared to the other options out there.
Rujik:
Gear: 9
Skill: 8
Loot: 8
Rujik is a really solid fight. Leaves you OOM on-tier, high skill check, and awesome loot in return for the difficulty of the fight.
Undead Taeshlin:
Gear: 7
Skill: 8
Loot: 8
Overall another high risk high reward fight. Entire loot table has been nerfed, and yet its still a very desirable/rewarding mob to kill.
Blazewind:
Gear: 8
Skill: 9
Loot: 8
High gear check, high individual skill check, good rewards.
OG Warden/Researcher:
Gear: 8
Skill: 6
Loot: *Not enough data to be sure*
Currently this is the highest DPS check in the game that FWF has killed. Its not super complex it tedious, but requires careful/skilled play by most of the raid. I don't know where this is supposed to fit into the overall progression scheme of the game, but given how high the gear check is right now, and the fact that it drops 1 loot, IDK how great the loot is. The shoulders seem fairly good, not crazy stats, but channeling will always be desired/worn. The arms seemed very underwhelming for the fight, compared to the ones ghan drops which seem equally good, from a much easier fight.
Infested Monstrosity:
Gear: 8
Skill: 6
Loot: 7
Another overall good end-game boss. High gear check, moderately high skill check, some awesome loot, and other pieces that don't seem to fit anywhere well, but are still good.
As I said above, this is all subjective, but I don't think its too far from reality. I'm open to any suggestions/critique. I don't think all mobs should have equal risk/reward. Part of my reason for posting is that I wonder how much my/other players view of risk/reward corresponds with the Dev Team's view of risk/reward. There is kind of a "Thaz Effect" in place right now where players can get tons of awesome loot *and* opuses without too much difficulty in the T11-12 range, so progressing beyond this point just doesn't feel like a good use of time to many players. Its hard to resist killing all those mobs whenever they are up especially since everyone "wants/needs" an essentially endless amount of opuses, and higher tier targets don't actually continue to drop them. For this reason alone, FWF has, and will continue to raid these tiers basically forever, or until an alternative/higher tier way of obtaining opuses is in game.
