Deity Spell effects

Haenir

Dalayan Master
I thought it would be interesting to see additional consequences to deity choice.

Idea: Add an additional effect to spells which have a deity in their name, for those who worship that deity.
Example1: Wizard nuke Tarhyl's Embrace, when cast by a Wizard who worships Tarhyl, has an X% chance an effect which makes the target more vulnerable to fire damage by X% for X ticks.
Example2: Shaman buff Essence of Tarhansar, when cast on a player who worships Tarhansar, has an X% chance to proc a heal when struck by melee.
Example3: Shadowknight buff Veil of Marlow, when cast on a player who worships Marlow, has an X% chance to add a spell rune.

Etc.

The goal would be more flavor + minor usefulness. Is this kind of thing is even possible?
 
Sounds complicated and exclusionary. Religion is already a flavor area that is precariously balanced and unfinished and there are gods who aren't represented in spell lists.

I just see the potential for huge power gaming from things that feel negligible. I mean even a 2% haste increase in Glory of Enthann will make Enthann an irreplaceable deity for rogues and likely a number of other DPS.
 
Its a neat idea I guess, but as long as players cant change their deity, it would be super frustrating to everyone who chose the non-ideal deity for their class.
 
flavor + minor usefulness

a 2% haste increase in Glory of Enthann will make Enthann an irreplaceable deity for rogues and likely a number of other DPS.

+2% haste would fall outside the range of minor usefulness

Something like a 1% chance to summon a flaming sword pet would be more of the idea.

Its a neat idea I guess, but as long as players cant change their deity, it would be super frustrating to everyone who chose the non-ideal deity for their class.

This is why you make the additional effects minor and more for flavor. It could also be an interesting way to give worshipers of certain deities: e.g., Shojar, Malath, some kind of flavor.

Obviously there are things that are higher priority, but, at least for me, more flavor is generally a good thing.
 
unless it is 100% cosmetic and 0 effect on character power, literally ZERO effect, the min maxing number crunching nerds who play this game will be outraged over a change like this

Yet overall a change like this would equal a net gain, thus pleasing the min/max nerds who crunch numbers beyond their own toons?

I see the issue, but this same line of thinking could be used to justify not changing anything, ever, for fear of upsetting the min/max crowd. At the end of the day if people are going to get outraged over changes that might make the game more interesting/fun, I don't think decisions should be made, or suggestions put forward based on avoiding that outrage. It can occasionally be useful feedback (and as far as I can see, the dev's treat it as such), but "I'm outraged that this change means I can't reach my theoretical max utility" is a very niche argument that doesn't have a lot of traction in my mind.

Sounds complicated and exclusionary. Religion is already a flavor area that is precariously balanced and unfinished and there are gods who aren't represented in spell lists.

I see this as a potential way to help balance between deity choices, and to help make religion a more finished thing. How many players pledge Shojar? or the Divine Light? Would more chose those paths if there were some reason to? Sure, if you are focused on all the players that are already around and pledged to other, more currently useful/interesting deities, there is less reason to mess with things. But if you are considering future players, an interesting and dynamic religion component to the game seems pretty neat. Finishing deity augment quests would be huge towards this, but that isn't the only thing that could be done.

Its a neat idea I guess, but as long as players cant change their deity, it would be super frustrating to everyone who chose the non-ideal deity for their class.

Wouldn't it be possible to have a quest that allows deity change --- make it poof any deity augs / poof any gear dropped by your new deity's followers --- somewhat similar to the faction redemption quests in Thurgadin? Hell, I would probably use this to be able to go experience multiple deity questlines on the same toon.
 
this same line of thinking could be used to justify not changing anything, ever, for fear of upsetting the min/max crowd.
This just isnt true. It would be really frustrating if a bunch of people suddenly got more powerful for a random choice they made long ago, and can't change. Players want some control and decision making in how/why their character is strong, not "oh yay, I got lucky, so now im better (or worse) than others in my class. Most changes are not like this, they effect everyone equally.

Flavor stuff like this is neat, but it either needs to have no actual benefit, or be something players have control over. Many of us picked our diety years ago, so its not something we have control over anymore.

As I said, its a neat idea, but you speak as though this will significant improve the lives of new players, and it just won't.

And... it certainly would be possible to make such a quest to change diety, but it has been suggested numerous times, and I'm pretty sure its just something we are stuck with.
 
A quest to change Deities is pretty counter to the way the whole thing is set up on this server. Killing or helping kill just one of a deities favored creations puts you on that deities shit list FOREVER. These aren't frogs who get the snot beat out of them by a pet for attacking the wrong AFK necro, who will forgive you because you hoofed it back and forth with something their civilization needs to survive enough times for them to forget the time you popped that one irritating guard no one likes in the mouth for getting uppity. These are all powerful beings who create races, decide fates, manifest entire worlds and planes of existence on a whim and they have no use for your apologies or trinkets.

Lets not even get into the fact that a lot of new players barely even know how religion works on this server, let alone know about the already available augs and quests. Or how interlocking/indivisible alignment and religion are. Adding one more variable to an already complicated system seems like more headache than fun, especially one that is already fairly over looked to begin with.

I see this going one of two ways:

1.) We create a terribly complicated system for extremely low value features to the game which will add even more avenues to consider when making your character/power gaming. This will lead to people who will endlessly bitch about balance and create just one more thing that will be a cute idea turned horrible shit show in 2 years when 3.0 and new raid content comes out and that negligible increase to whatever makes a fight or class too powerful and you either get massive nerfs that piss everyone off or it never gets addressed and become canon and you always need a _____ that worships ____ doing ____ the whole fight for easymode.

2.) We take the Dev's time away from projects like 2.5, which will add actual value and playability to the server, to create a purely cosmetic change to the game that will take up buff slots, spell ID#s, pet slots, song slots, swarm pet slots or the like to create a minor "variation" between characters.


TL;DR:
1.)
Tons of work for something that will be nerfed, scrapped, hated, useless or overpowered on a system that is already all about flavor and RP that is either ignored, underused or unknown to the population of this server.

2.) Entirely cosmetic in which case it will be cumbersome, useless, taxing on system resources, or in other words: entirely replaceable by your imagination or drugs.


Frankly, unless its adding DPS I don't want a flaming sword spawning with any % chance for my Warrior. I have enough shit following me around and blocking my vision while tanking, I don't need a useless sword added to my conga line. Making a pretty spell graphic is useless because if you ever grouped with someone with a Jyre or some of the more ridiculous spell effects or been the off tank that had to pick up raid adds 10% the size of the boss you are fighting, you have that shit turned off so you can actually target something. A message like "Using your Deities spell is really giving them a chubby" will be lost in most of the battle spam.

There is no such thing as "negligible numbers" in a game about numbers. It either produces numbers, in which case we dont need/want it or its purely cosmetic in which case its a bunch of thing we still don't need. My personal opinion is that there are other areas to work on that will add function and use to this server without having to resort to fluff to get it. Making more quests that define alignment to allow people to experiment with replies or even switch deities before they have set it in stone would add more to religion as a whole than some super rare cosmetic effect. I was originally going to go Shitri on my War/Clr because that god is slightly closer than Enthann for their RP and is actually the alignment they are on my Pen&Paper. Luckily, they are both chaotic, so the switch from good to neutral isn't as big a deal. Chaotic hits are harder if you aren't rogue/bard.

Same thing I tell my D&D crew when they come up with some stupid fucking idea to reinvent the wheel to get it a slightly different color. "Use your imagination." Since 2nd ed in D&D Katanas and Bastard swords have been effectively the same sword double printed and called different things. Finally in 5th they just streamlined it. Want a trident? It's the same stats as a spear, you just call yours a trident. You don't want "magic missiles" you want "purple glowing fists that give the middle finger as they fly out because you are some psychotic clown wizard modeled after the Joker?" Well, they still do 1d4+1 and are subject to magical resistance, call it whatever gets you off.
 
Let me summarize then: F U NO!!!!!!
Just in a thousand words, more descriptive, and highly entertaining. And holy shit, 5th edition now? When I last played, it was third edition, and 4th edition stuff was in the works only.
 
I see this going one of two ways:

1.) We create a terribly complicated system for extremely low value features to the game which will add even more avenues to consider when making your character/power gaming. This will lead to people who will endlessly bitch about balance and create just one more thing that will be a cute idea turned horrible shit show in 2 years when 3.0 and new raid content comes out and that negligible increase to whatever makes a fight or class too powerful and you either get massive nerfs that piss everyone off or it never gets addressed and become canon and you always need a _____ that worships ____ doing ____ the whole fight for easymode.

2.) We take the Dev's time away from projects like 2.5, which will add actual value and playability to the server, to create a purely cosmetic change to the game that will take up buff slots, spell ID#s, pet slots, song slots, swarm pet slots or the like to create a minor "variation" between characters.

Yeah, I guess I agree with you -- too much complexity creep, too little dev time. I still wish deity content was more "finished".

has tarhansar's aug effect been fixed/changed yet?
No.
 
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