Crooked Earring of Mental Warding

[Bone]

This earring is the best knight earring around if knights cant wear them effectively then there should be an equiv or remove the negative effect. Thats the point here.

 

[Aeran]

Just because there is a little mod that is detrimental to some classes in some special circumstances, doesnt mean that it needs to be changed. Its been previously said: some items are simply better for certain classes that can use it than others. Hoop of Madness is a good example (favors pure melee's over hybirds, since they dont have have mana to lose). Also, take the Gauntlets of Chaotic Fury: it has great stats and HP for melee DPS, even 2% crit mods for those who arent maxed; however, it also has +3 aggression. This is great for the War/Pal/SK's that can use it, but what about the Rangers, bards, and especially Rogues? Should the +3 aggro be removed so it will appeal to rogues as much as the other classes, since their other choices are Guantlets of the Storm (which are really rare, dont have a crit mod, and have less STR/DEX/AC and HP) or Rengaws Mighty Fists (which one cant really *plan* on getting since raid tmaps are so incridbly rare).

 

[Thinkmeats]

Just because there is a little mod that is detrimental to some classes in some special circumstances, doesnt mean that it needs to be changed.

Right, the number of classes effected is irrelevant to whether it needs changing. It all comes down to whether or not the devs intended for mind shield to be the way it is. I would posit no, considering that the 10% mind shield ring is only usable by mana classes, but none of them ever touch it for a variety of reasons mentioned in this thread.

 

[Aeran]

First off, its mana shield (mind shield is what Volkov suggested as a replacement). Secondly, your assumption that mana shield isnt working as intended simply because mana users can use it is misinterpreted. Mana shield items are meant for mana users, because... it does absolutely nothing for those without mana. Why should healers/casters "never touch" a mana shield item? It only drains mana when they take melee damage, and when a healer/caster is taking melee damage, I'm sure losing a little mana is the last thing on their mind; who knows, it could save their life. IMO, mana shield is working just as intended. Look at Corpse Rune Spaulers, for example:

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 19
Effect: Flowing Thought II (Worn)
STA: +5 WIS: +9 INT: +9 AGI: +5 HP: +80 MANA: +80
Mana Shield: +10%
Weight: 4.1 Size: Small
Class: CLE PAL RNG SHD DRU BRD SHM BST
Race: ALL

EVERY class that can use it is a mana user. Is this intended? Considering that it has FT2, 9wis/int, and 80 mana, I'd assume so. Obviously, mana shield is something that at least the hardcore (non-hybrid) mana users should use (and want to use).

 

[Thinkmeats]

First off, its mana shield (mind shield is what Volkov suggested as a replacement). Secondly, your assumption that mana shield isnt working as intended simply because mana users can use it is misinterpreted. Mana shield items are meant for mana users, because... it does absolutely nothing for those without mana.

Hahahahaha what

You might want to read my post a bit closer--The important part is 'but none of them ever touch it'. As in, I've seen the ring drop a million times and I can't give the thing away. If you want to theorize why they wouldn't want it, it's your business, but I don't really care (unless you're offering to buy one of mine!).

Why in god's name you're talking about how only mana classes can use mana items in a thread about a war-usable earring with mana shield is beyond me. I brought up a specific example only usable by mana classes, to point out a very clean-cut case of the item not be used as intended (since the only thing it has is mana shield, but it has lots of it, so there's no chance anyone would use it for its other properties).

 

[Foonie]

That's exactly why we haven't given Hodge one of these earrings. It's a far better earring for someone without mana. Some items are specifically designed to be better for certain classes.

:brow:

 

[Aeran]

You might want to read my post a bit closer--The important part is 'but none of them ever touch it'. As in, I've seen the ring drop a million times and I can't give the thing away. If you want to theorize why they wouldn't want it, it's your business, but I don't really care (unless you're offering to buy one of mine!).

Heres what I get from your post:
Your claim: The devs did not intend for [mana] shield to be the way it is.
Your argument: the 10% [mana] shield ring, usable only by mana classes, is never touched (obviously because they see it as a negative effect). In other words, mana users do not want mana shield.

Re-reading my post:
My claim: Mana shield works just fine (I disagree with your stance).
My argument: Mana users should want mana shield. Mana shield is a good thing for mana users. Look at this item, it has 10% mana shield and is great for casters.

Why in god's name you're talking about how only mana classes can use mana items in a thread about a war-usable earring with mana shield is beyond me. I brought up a specific example only usable by mana classes, to point out a very clean-cut case of the item not be used as intended (since the only thing it has is mana shield, but it has lots of it, so there's no chance anyone would use it for its other properties).

Show me a quote where I say "only mana classes can use mana items" and I'll show you a post where I say mana shield only affects mana users (in a thread based upon pals/sk's using said mana shield item, at that). Pointing out a case where a mana shield item is not being used as intended is very, very different from a mana shield not working as intended (you assert the latter in a prevoius post, and treat it like the former in this most recent one). I dont know what ring you're talking about, I dont know that it had no stats/effect other than 10% mana shield. Still, I hold my ground in that mana shield is a good thing for mana users (in most quantities and situations). Saying mana shield isnt working as intended just because you cant sell/give away a ring with a lot of it is bad basis for an argument. Maybe, just maybe, casters dont value it as highly as other stuff (stats, mana, ft, etc) which is so commonly and cheaply found on a ring. Thats like me saying, "look, i have a +5 str breastplate, but no one ever wants it, STR isnt working as intended because I cant give it away".


Bottom Line: Mana Shield works as intended, and is intended to be used by mana users, as a good thing (in all but a few select situations for a few select classes, which can easily be avoided by... dequipping the item). Yes, some items with mana shield will be usable by pure melees, but thats because the rest of the item is meant to be appealing to them too.

 

[Thinkmeats]

"But people should want to buy our pruducts! Fo reals! It doesn't matter that nobody actually does, they SHOULD! That means the product line is working great!"

Beyond that, your post is drifting into insanity--I honestly don't know what you're trying to say with half those :words:. You make these weird arguments against points I never made, go off on odd tangents ("HAH! I have shown conclusively that casters use caster items and caster-only abilities don't change non-casters! I WIN AGAIN!"), and generally construct some kind of freaky frankenstien argument I'm afraid to touch.

Is there something wrong with the point that, if mana shield was what the devs wanted it to be, people might actually want to use it? In theory it can be nice, but in practice it's kind of shitty. The assertions at the end of your post are all irrelevant except for "as a good thing (in all but a few select situations for a few select classes, which can easily be avoided by... dequipping the item)", which needs to be supported--it isn't enough to just claim "well, it is a good thing, just watch me say so!" and have done.

Mana shield is bad for a variety of good, but complicated, reasons. One way to fix it would be to make it better but have it only take effect below certain health percentages. By way of an easy example, I'll take the ash-coated ring I mentioned earlier: 10% mana shield, nothing else. If that ring absorbed 20% of damage but only worked below 50% of my health, or absorbed 10% damage at cost of .5 mana loss per damage, or gave me a bag of cookies and abosrbed 10% damage, I'd probably use it--but only if it shut its goddamned mouth during 100-51% of my life.

 

[rab]

Why do you pretend to know that mana shield was meant to be a benefit?

Ash-covered Ring is Mana Shield 10, and I won't use it. Why? Well, I'd rather have wis/mana than Mana Shield. Does that mean Mana Shield is bad?
-vs-
Bright Crystal Ring is FT1, and I won't use it. Why? Well, I'd rather have wis/mana than FT1. Does that mean FT is bad?

 

[Aeran]

*sigh* I never said mana shield was working as intended because casters should want to use it. I'm saying that its wrong to think that its not working as intended because casters dont want THAT ring. From now on, Aeran talks in simple sentences.

If you want support that mana shield is good (save a few select situations) then fine, here goes. As a ranger, I'm a semi-tank. I have this earring, and I tank with it. I think it is nice. Why? Because it essentially takes away some damage that I would have taken otherwise. I know that my mana goes down a little when I tank. I got 9 FT so it would balance out. I dont use it when I have to tank anything crazy, which is pretty much never (I dont tank Catacombs or "raid" nameds, and DHK minis/Mielech 1 grouped doesnt drain me). I take less damage as a whole, yet am still able to chain pull in most exp spots (MielechC, DHK, etc) while casting Icerend almost every single time it pops and still stay FM indefinately.

Is there something wrong with the point that, if mana shield was what the devs wanted it to be, people might actually want to use it?

I use it. Foma uses it. Ginam uses it. People I probably dont even know of use it.

That being said, I wouldnt mind having the mana shield stop at 50% (or whatever) mana, I just dont think this item in question is in need of any changes.

Edit: I'd also like to add that some people have a conception of an "end all be all" items, that are flawless in every way and situation and should never, ever, for any reason, be dequipped. Considering most end game loot nowadays lacks in resists, I would go as far as to assume the devs arent in favor of making these.

Ninja Edit #2: so its not that great for healers, since they can heal themselves effectively and would rather take melee damage than damaging their mana pool. In light of this, I'd agree with a /trigger for mana shield.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Why do you pretend to know that mana shield was meant to be a benefit?

Are you implying that a named mob would drop a ring with no abilities and an intended detriment as a reward? Don't be silly.

Ash-covered Ring is Mana Shield 10, and I won't use it. Why? Well, I'd rather have wis/mana than Mana Shield. Does that mean Mana Shield is bad?
-vs-
Bright Crystal Ring is FT1, and I won't use it. Why? Well, I'd rather have wis/mana than FT1. Does that mean FT is bad?

This would be a valid point, except that people actually do use Bright Crystal Ring--you, I imagine, would prefer FT1 over a ring with, say, wis 2 and 10 mana. The same cannot be said for Ash-Covered Ring, and ash-covered is arguably easier to get since it's droppable.

words

A ranger with FT9 that tanks is not a normal test case, and I haven't typed 'crooked earring of kajigger or whatever its name is' before now--I'm talking about mana shield in general, not one specific item which has a shitton of awesome things on it.

Edit: I'd also like to add that some people have a conception of an "end all be all" items, that are flawless in every way and situation and should never, ever, for any reason, be dequipped. Considering most end game loot nowadays lacks in resists, I would go as far as to assume the devs arent in favor of making these.

Ninja Edit #2: so its not that great for healers, since they can heal themselves effectively and would rather take melee damage than damaging their mana pool. In light of this, I'd agree with a /trigger for mana shield.

If you have to apologize for mana shield acting as a detriment so often, there's probably something wrong with the nature of the ability. As an aside, I'd rather it be automatic instead of done with a button--my hotbutton list is crowded as-is and I have enough on my mind when I'm getting head-punched.

quick aside edit: energy shield is good in diablo II because sorcs have monster mana regen and their survivability is disconnected from their mana (aside from long-duration buffs)--they spend killing power to gain defense, whereas in eq, casters have stun, mez, root, etc to avoid the reaper, and as such are already plenty capable of spending mana in defense. Since root is much more efficient than mana shield at its job, mana shield only becomes useful during emergiences; the occasional love tap from a monster is what makes mana shield not so good. Because rings and other items cant easily be switched during the aforementioned emergency, mana shield spends most of its time as a detriment.

 

[rab]

Bravo.

Edit: I never thought of mana shield as an item to equip by itself, despite using your ring as an example. Mana shield sucks and I'm gonna leave it at that. I wanted to mention Diablo 2 also since it's actually worthwhile there, but you summarized that up nicely. I have nothing further to say. Assuming the devs meant mana shield to be a true boon, it needs reworking. If it's a sometimes good sometimes bad thing, I guess it does its job, but definitely not well.

 

[Aeran]

words

A ranger with FT9 that tanks is not a normal test case, and I haven't typed 'crooked earring of kajigger or whatever its name is' before now--I'm talking about mana shield in general, not one specific item which has a shitton of awesome things on it.

If you noticed, I didnt mention any other aspects of the earring, other than it had mana shield. That whole paragraph was talking about mana shield and its effects that I experience in game, and was in response to your "'as a good thing (in all but a few select situations for a few select classes, which can easily be avoided by... dequipping the item)', which needs to be supported--it isn't enough to just claim "well, it is a good thing, just watch me say so!" and have done."

 

[Thinkmeats]

If you noticed, I didnt mention any other aspects of the earring, other than it had mana shield. That whole paragraph was talking about mana shield and its effects that I experience in game, and was in response to your "'as a good thing (in all but a few select situations for a few select classes, which can easily be avoided by... dequipping the item)', which needs to be supported--it isn't enough to just claim "well, it is a good thing, just watch me say so!" and have done."

"tanking as a ranger" does not satisfy "a good thing in all but a few select situations for a few select classes".