COP 1 - 5 and removing the bar for new players to participate in the raidgame

Those are pretty cool ideas. It may truly be time for a sequel.

SoD2: Resistance
SoD2: Athica's Last Stand
SoD2: A Plea to the Gods
SoD2: Kaezul Strikes Back Again
Etc.

Muse Uprising as the theme song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog&feature=kp

BTW, reading the quote about x level 1's vs. Bango made me laugh out loud. I remember res zerging down the sleeper on Xegony server of live. There were so many people there that the sleeper couldn't kill PCs fast enough. I might have taken 20 or 30 deaths that night ;) Bango, if the population here rebounds, you better watch your ass.
 
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Zaela said:
It's not worth having ideas. Anything I come up with would be too different anyway. To wit:

<serious = "off">

Leave SoD as it is and start something new but related from scratch. Try to work from lessons learned and avoid long-standing issues before they have years to become entrenched.

Example: automated events, like the War. Events are great in theory but always come up against the issue that low levels are flat out incapable of contributing to anything that's worth higher level players being involved in. There's no fundamental reason that large level differences need to make all attacks miss/get resisted. Take that out. Maybe change heals to work in the vein of "heals for 75 or 5%, whichever is higher" to allow lowbie healers to contribute relatively small but non-trivial amounts when high level players are taking the lead. (Probably crib % mana costs for heals to make that non-exploitable and fix the "high end healers have infinite mana" issue at the same time.)

In the future, Kaezul's forces have taken over almost all of Dalaya. Only <city> remains free, and members of all races have fled there, but even it is in jeopardy. The skies are an endless sea of grey -- the city is always darkened, remnants of Kaezul's twisted magic. Raids on the city are commonplace; everyone knows it's only a matter time before a proper assault is mounted. The guilds that once defended the city are in tatters, splintered after recent failed retaliatory campaigns. Few people openly wander the streets. The economy is ruined -- even beetle eyes are considered worthless. Shops that once sold fine goods now offer only rations and rumors.

In the midst of all this, the remaining Guild Masters -- many from regions now under occupation -- are working in secret to recruit and train a new resistance to strike back at the Kaezulians any way they can: attacking patrols, raiding outposts and caravans, liberating cities; perhaps even fighting wild powers not even the Kaezulians have been able to contain...

* Centralized hub zone where new players all start, so they can find people to group up with as easily as possible, even when low level players become scarce. Lots of quests can go there, making all of them more accessible and making working on quests more attractive as a dev (sucks making a quest only a handful of people do for years). Easy theme for quests and lore too: war tensions, rising in ranks, missions, etc. Zone difficulty can fan out naturally from the starting city zone. Lots of zones can just be reimagined from current SoD versions.

* Rewards: change reward structures to allow more room to grow. Give items tons of aug slots. Maybe have aug slots segregated by source: tradeskill-sourced-only aug type, grinding/dungeon-sourced aug type (both zone specific drops and wide-ranging/global random rares), augs type that only comes from events and quests, etc. Main slot items would be mainly from raids and tradeskills and maybe droppables, as now.

* Non-farming, non-grinding tradeskills. Tradeskill items are made out of random rare wide-ranging/global drops. No combine failures, no skill grinding; creating items mainly gated by skill requirements and scarcity of dropped supplies. Non-"trivial" combines always increase skill. Tradeskilled gear should never become completely irrelevant; very rare drops from super high-end zones make super high-end gear.

* Change how money is obtained. No more market for rat fur. Using Kaezulian currency considered treasonous. Would need to consult someone whose eyes don't glaze over thinking about "virtual economies" to work out a specific idea, but in general: non-farmable. Maybe some kind of stipend depending on quests/"rank"/level. Or something really out there like a strict limitation on how much money exists in game at any one time, increasing at a slow rate.

* Wackier things like changing how leveling up works, how damage and stats work, etc. Redesigning spells and abilities from the ground up. Maybe giving classes more leeway to fill alternate roles while still preserving their expected specializations. Maybe make some lower level zones more dungeon crawl-y/raid-like, why not. Maybe keep the level cap extremely low (e.g.: 10 to start) while work is done doing all the spell and skill redesigning, content creation, etc. Keep people from getting super far ahead off the bat while still letting them grind augs and tradeskill items.

* Make some stuff instanced. Can keep open world mini-events like tmaps, but realize that Wiz's old justification of being able to stumble onto stuff happening and see that the world is "alive" doesn't really apply to out-of-the-way dedicated raid zones.

* Make stuff like meditating, buffing time, and downtime in general much shorter. Maybe minimize long-term buffs altogether. Raise base movespeed.
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Those are some awesome ideas Zae, /clap. I really wish you would make this game, I would happily alpha/beta & play it. (And if I new code, or could draw beyond stick figures, help make it.) It sounds awesome.
As for buffs/buffing time, that could be remedied fairly easy. Each class has a buff they provide to the group/raid, either just by being in the group, or a cast. That class leaves, their buff goes. (EQ has something like this now, called aura's. SW:ToR has class buffs only, also, for reference.)
And I am not sure why instanced dungeons are so frowned upon, it makes sure their is always something for a group to do, without concerns of somebody sniping the named you are after. And it could be easily tied into your new questline ideas, a way to earn some cash, get TS supplies, and get augs.
 
The auras on live aren't even really buffs they are tiny boosts to xp, atk speed and defense only a couple of classes actually get them. People still go to town for buffs like they did 13 years ago. I never understood the problem with instancing here either its quite wonderful. Raid requests are on 3 and 5 day timers group missions on 12 hours
 
Yeah, I understand that auras on live are more like small boosts, and that it was never fleshed out for every class. Still, at least half the classes got them. The code for them should exist in the new client, so it is something that could be built off of, and finished for all classes. If you want to get away from the buff system we have, you have to look towards things like that, imo. Live also has the guild lobby, where everyone can sit afk and get buffed to full, and not having a timer start on them until you leave.
 
Krugz said:
The auras on live aren't even really buffs they are tiny boosts to xp, atk speed and defense only a couple of classes actually get them. People still go to town for buffs like they did 13 years ago. I never understood the problem with instancing here either its quite wonderful. Raid requests are on 3 and 5 day timers group missions on 12 hours
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I agree 100%. My only issue with instances is that they can sometimes take away the sense of community. After x amount of zones implemented, imo it wouldn't even matter... Instances solve all problems with bottlenecking due to lack of spawns in raid progression and group progression content.

A Couple more cool things about live:
-There was a paladin aura that gave a +% bonus to heals for the whole group (maybe raid) when they were in range of the paladin.
-Instead of auras, shaman got totems which can be laid down and had an AE radius effect (and everyone can physically see the totem in game.) The shaman ones I remember using were AE Malo.
-Some items had clicky auras.
-Shaman had a virus type spell, whereas mobs in proximity would infect each other with it, and keep infecting themselves. Big agro, but super cool for certain raid fights.

I was really impressed by the aura and totem systems when they went live.
level 55 class-specific Aura spells-
Bard: Spell: Aura of Insight
Beastlord: You'll get nothing and like it!
Berserker: Tome of Aura of Rage
Cleric: Spell: Aura of the Zealot
Druid: Spell: Aura of the Grove
Enchanter: Spell: Beguiler's Aura
Magician: Spell: Earthen Strength
Monk: Tome of Disciples Aura
Necromancer: Spell: Dark Rune
Paladin: Spell: Holy Aura
Ranger: You'll get nothing and like it!
Rogue: Tome of Poison Spurs
Shadowknight: You'll get nothing and like it!
Shaman: Spell: Idol of Malo
Warrior: Tome of Myrmidon's Aura
Wizard: Spell: Fire Mark
 
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Just a note about Auras and the possibility of the new client to include them:

The Live developers have repeatedly said (basically) that they regretted adding auras to the game - as things attached to player characters' positions.

The reason for this is that the way the client/their servers? (not sure on this) handles auras (and the hit detection / range detection thereof) is VERY computation intensive on the server's end. Considering that most of the aura effects they made available to players are minor, fluffy effects (with a few notable exceptions) that's a pretty crappy tradeoff (minimal or nonexistant improvement to gameplay at the price of lots of extra server load).

One thing the Live devs did recently that probably helps somewhat with that computational overhead was creating lines of Stationary aura abilities which, once cast, create an aura effect that remains in place and affects valid targets who enter that location, rather than radiating out from the caster (and constantly checking for valid targets entering or exiting the aura's radius WHILE the source of the aura is also running around). This can be used to create what amounts to buff/debuff "totems" that a character drops on the ground and passively help/harm valid targets who stand nearby.

Food for thought if auras come under consideration.
 
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Kedrin said:
I don't think they would ever remove it from the game they would simply just give every 65 free CoP5. It's more easy to do all around. However it would only make lower tier raids even more lackluster than they are now. You can already skip to T5 raids quite easy just from BoE gear. If everyone was also doing 20% more melee, spell and healing it would just kill more old content.

Basically what I'm trying to say is someone needs to come up with an idea that is not just 1) removing them 2) giving them away for free 3) splitting them up to fuck over some classes just because.
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What if those % were given to classes through items from the Tears quest chain? So they need to work for it and at the same time it is still obtainable? But other items can have them also? Just throwing out idea's. BUt this is one route we can take. That would hopefully modivate people into questing a bit more for those awesome items.
 
Symbiosis said:
The reason for this is that the way the client/their servers? (not sure on this) handles auras (and the hit detection / range detection thereof) is VERY computation intensive on the server's end. Considering that most of the aura effects they made available to players are minor, fluffy effects (with a few notable exceptions) that's a pretty crappy tradeoff (minimal or nonexistant improvement to gameplay at the price of lots of extra server load).
Click to expand...

I wonder if all that computation could just be replaced with an "in zone" check. Not the most elegant solution, but easy to compute.
 
Zaela said:
Redesigning spells and abilities from the ground up. Maybe giving classes more leeway to fill alternate roles while still preserving their expected specializations.
Click to expand...

I played your custom server Zaela and that wear-gear-get-abilities mechanic was really nice. I wish I'd had more time to commit and cheer that project on.

Zaela said:
Raise base movespeed.
Click to expand...

Sneaky idea to save player time that can go in asap.
 
Zaela said:
* Tension between "excuse to do thing with e-friends" and "MMO players won't do anything that doesn't offer advancement". Excuse to grind blurred with obligation to grind. Inevitable "I put lots of time into this therefore it must be valuable" contingent.
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I can't be the only guy who laughed at this, so true
 
Zaela said:
* Lots of lessons learned but no real willingness to take a chance on making big fixes. Too much baggage from Live and from Wiz's ideas of how things should be. Inconsistent concern with preserving nostalgia elements versus making the game less stale. No solid foundations - lots of half-baked/half-fixed stuff built on other half-baked/half-fixed stuff. No passion left.
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I've mostly avoided this thread because everyone has their opinions and most of them are wrong, and it'll inevitably result in a forum vacation, but then I read this. The last part of this quote is the only reason why SoD died.

Years ago, there were tons of devs, new shit coming out all the time, new fixes and mechanics, new zones, big class/raid changes, lots of GM events and interaction between the staff. After Ikisith was released, everything changed. Woldaff became little more than a ghost, Slaariel became the Admin, and he is so incredibly inept at his job it is mindblowing - I wouldn't trust him to take care of my cat over the weekend, but he's been running the game for the past few years, and one thing has remained consistent: Population decline. I'll leave it to you all to decide the specifics of WHY that is, but this fact is undeniable: The server decline began the minute Woldaff went MIA and left the Admin duties to Slaariel. He does not care about the game, he runs off every potential new dev and/or quickly breaks their spirit with his apathetic attitude, shoots down every idea to inject some FUN into the game. He doesn't know a thing about the game past The Eternal Well, and he has no desire to learn. That is the true problem. Passion.

SoD was a great game. It's a cop out to say it died because of tomes or raid curve or whatever bullshit you want to believe - It never had to happen. It could have been fixed. The passion of the admins died, and that set the wheels of inevitability into motion. The admins know so little about the game now, we still have an entire tier of items that never got bane added, we have super rare items that were nerfed to be utterly worthless - no hyperbole - we have tier 13 items that are undeniably worse than tier 9 items. I feel sorry for Wiz, Cyzaine, pre-job Woldaff, Tyrone, Marza, all the other devs who made this game great, and I feel bad for the recent many (besides Judas) who thought they could join the dev team and make a change - inject some life into things! Until you finally get in there, all full o' piss & vinegar, only to realize... no one cares anymore.

But hey, Sense the Dead works now. Probably.
 
cian2 said:
I've mostly avoided this thread because everyone has their opinions and most of them are wrong, and it'll inevitably result in a forum vacation, but then I read this. The last part of this quote is the only reason why SoD died.

Years ago, there were tons of devs, new shit coming out all the time, new fixes and mechanics, new zones, big class/raid changes, lots of GM events and interaction between the staff. After Ikisith was released, everything changed. Woldaff became little more than a ghost, Slaariel became the Admin, and he is so incredibly inept at his job it is mindblowing - I wouldn't trust him to take care of my cat over the weekend, but he's been running the game for the past few years, and one thing has remained consistent: Population decline. I'll leave it to you all to decide the specifics of WHY that is, but this fact is undeniable: The server decline began the minute Woldaff went MIA and left the Admin duties to Slaariel. He does not care about the game, he runs off every potential new dev and/or quickly breaks their spirit with his apathetic attitude, shoots down every idea to inject some FUN into the game. He doesn't know a thing about the game past The Eternal Well, and he has no desire to learn. That is the true problem. Passion.

SoD was a great game. It's a cop out to say it died because of tomes or raid curve or whatever bullshit you want to believe - It never had to happen. It could have been fixed. The passion of the admins died, and that set the wheels of inevitability into motion. The admins know so little about the game now, we still have an entire tier of items that never got bane added, we have super rare items that were nerfed to be utterly worthless - no hyperbole - we have tier 13 items that are undeniably worse than tier 9 items. I feel sorry for Wiz, Cyzaine, pre-job Woldaff, Tyrone, Marza, all the other devs who made this game great, and I feel bad for the recent many (besides Judas) who thought they could join the dev team and make a change - inject some life into things! Until you finally get in there, all full o' piss & vinegar, only to realize... no one cares anymore.

But hey, Sense the Dead works now. Probably.
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This... saddens me...
 
Symbiosis said:
Just a note about Auras and the possibility of the new client to include them:

The Live developers have repeatedly said (basically) that they regretted adding auras to the game - as things attached to player characters' positions.

The reason for this is that the way the client/their servers? (not sure on this) handles auras (and the hit detection / range detection thereof) is VERY computation intensive on the server's end. Considering that most of the aura effects they made available to players are minor, fluffy effects (with a few notable exceptions) that's a pretty crappy tradeoff (minimal or nonexistant improvement to gameplay at the price of lots of extra server load).

One thing the Live devs did recently that probably helps somewhat with that computational overhead was creating lines of Stationary aura abilities which, once cast, create an aura effect that remains in place and affects valid targets who enter that location, rather than radiating out from the caster (and constantly checking for valid targets entering or exiting the aura's radius WHILE the source of the aura is also running around). This can be used to create what amounts to buff/debuff "totems" that a character drops on the ground and passively help/harm valid targets who stand nearby.

Food for thought if auras come under consideration.
Click to expand...

All that may be true, I haven't played live in a couple years, and haven't played it regular in about a decade. (I had that free 45 days from their screw up a couple years back, I played maybe 3 weeks of it, and came back here.)

Now, nobody said the auras had to be used as they are on live. They could all be buffed up to compensate the "loss of class buffs". As for all the checks, it would seem an in group, in zone, check would be all you really need to make it work. They added all that limited range jazz, and made them weak, because it was a slight balance booster, and they certainly weren't removing buffs. If anything, buffs on Live have gotten far crazier since I quit the first time.
 
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