Clerics, Heals, Direct Damage, Dots, etc.

H

hooden

Dalayan Beginner
Well, we are not real good at anything past the second one, so I will focus on that.

With the recent loss of CH, clerics have taken an incredible hit to their efficiency. I'm not shouting nerf gun and zomg give me CH back, but what I am saying is that I am using a significantly larger amount of mana in fights that I am quite accustomed to.

Right now I am not aware of any discussion on this, but if there is please direct me to it! Regardless, I feel leaving clerics the way they are now is not only rough on the clerics, but it makes us quite unbalanced compared to other healers. I am not about to say that we cannot heal, but I will say that we can pretty much only heal and cast one buff.

Furthermore, I understand that, as a whole, players' hit points are going to go down, but this does not address the point regarding class balance, namely clerics need an upper hand considering we only have one card to play.

Some simple things I am thinking of include lower mana costs, increasing the amount of health healed, making celestial spells last longer, heal more, etc.
 
CH in its current form is useless. It's more costly than LoE, cannot crit, and casts slower. I can't think of an "emergency" where it's going to be more useful than critting on LoE (which is possible at nearly 30% with runes of healing, max AAs, and cleric innate). And every five minutes? Please.

What I'd like to see is a quick cast (Yaulp-speed) CH usable every 10 minutes for roughly 500 mana. This thing would be pretty strong, yeah, but usable once a raid fight, and usable in such a way that it's not really something you can rely upon -- waiting until your tank is going to be at 10% isn't terribly bright.

I'm sure there's a few drawbacks to that idea, and maybe it's too powerful, I'm not sure. In any event, for me at least, losing CH does nothing to the group-game (it's been 200 AAs since I cast CH in group) and only removes a safety net from raids that really didn't need to be there anyway.
 
With the recent changes to CoE (Being group instead of raid wide) It would be nice to see it fast cast with a long cooldown as well, as now it is highly situational at best.
 
rab said:
(which is possible at nearly 30% with runes of healing, max AAs, and cleric innate)
(it's been 200 AAs since I cast CH in group)
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Hate to say so, but I might not be wrong if I think that most clerics do not meet that criteria. I have 15 aaxp, and have been playing since WR... I can certainly do without CH in groups if my group is willing to have more downtime, because besides not having aaxp, I also don't have a large mana pool, nor a decent amount of FT.

I am not going to yell that the house is burning, but the efficiency of lesser equipped characters has been diminished.
 
hooden said:
Well, we are not real good at anything past the second one, so I will focus on that.

With the recent loss of CH, clerics have taken an incredible hit to their efficiency. I'm not shouting nerf gun and zomg give me CH back, but what I am saying is that I am using a significantly larger amount of mana in fights that I am quite accustomed to.

Right now I am not aware of any discussion on this, but if there is please direct me to it! Regardless, I feel leaving clerics the way they are now is not only rough on the clerics, but it makes us quite unbalanced compared to other healers. I am not about to say that we cannot heal, but I will say that we can pretty much only heal and cast one buff.

Furthermore, I understand that, as a whole, players' hit points are going to go down, but this does not address the point regarding class balance, namely clerics need an upper hand considering we only have one card to play.

Some simple things I am thinking of include lower mana costs, increasing the amount of health healed, making celestial spells last longer, heal more, etc.
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Wiz had said in IRC one night that he was considering lowering the mana costs of some cleric heals because they only have a slight efficency advandage over druid heals at the current state.

I would like to address two clerical issues that I have come accross.

1.) Relic: Circle of Eternity - CoE is almost completely useless in its current form. It was an awesome and unique spell in its former self, when it was raidwide, and although it may have been slightly unbalancing, I believe that there are better solutions to addressing this other than making it group only. Right now, it isn't enough of an upgrade over Circle of Light that I would ever justify using it. Circle of Light itself is often mostly wasted because you need to cast it earily enough so that you can save the weaker dps classes or those who have lower resists, but because of this, the heal is wasted on those with more hp or higher resists. At least when CoE was raidwide, you could more justify using it because it could save people who were spread among all of the groups. That might have come out a little confusing but what I am trying to say is that LoE will be used over CoE in almost every situation I can think of.

2.) Complete Heals - Complete Heals are utterly useless in their current form (at least from what I have experienced in grouping and raiding) Light of Eternity has a 30%ish chance to crit. Even without it critting, it heals for roughly 4.5k-5k (I think, someone always dies when I try to test exactly, or it crits) which is almost always a complete heal, as in it heals the person to 100%. CH right now is basiclly a longer casting, higher mana cost, form of LoE.
 
We discussed something about this in irc, and wiz said somethin about lowering mana costs, to make cleric heals more mana efficient, increasing healed amount per mana point used up to 7.0. But yeah, actual CH can't be labeled as "situational" for once, has longer cast time than LoE, which means you'd have to be able to predict situation with 4.5 secs. I don't think that, on a raid, with 6 (8 by now) other healers, it's so easy to predict that situation, and, as Rabb said, Cheal is NOT used in groups. Last time I used it was in cata group, when I had 200 AA, and not a single relic heal... end, even that, Bliss would have been more efficient.

The idea of a 0.5 secs cast time Cheal seems appealing to me. It'd make it a situational heal, and could just be used once (or twice, at most) per raid encounter, so there'd be no chaining.

Now, about HoTs. It's been pointed that one advantage (regarding to heals) from clerics against any other healers are hots. Sure. But... I'd say "HOT" singular. EoB is pretty much only hot powerful enough to have ANY effect at all at end game. Group hot is HIGHLY super ultra mega situational (useful when grouping WW mobs, if cleric wants to melee too). Partially, problem is that high end mobs deal too much damage to be healed by EoB, and, by the time your recast time (counting not perfect world, allowing 400 ms lag, and all that) you already have to cast another heal, making it just udeful if you have LOTS of background heals, and only useful before a pull... and Celestial elixir even takes care of that use.  EoB, also, have enough recast time to prevent it being chained, unlike any previous HoT. This, before patch wasn't that much of an issue, since you could always cast hot, followed by a cheal, to make up for lost time casting, but now, I don't think that can be considered our best assest. Increasing ammount healed, or decreasing recast time, would make it more appealing for use, because healing 600 hp a tick against mobs that hit 4 times for 1k in that tick is like trying to drain the mediterranean with a sugar spoon, imo.
 
Mythryn said:
EoB licks ass in groups
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There, I fixed it for you. Elixir of Bliss has a worse efficiency than even blissful light. Where exactly is this going to be useful where a direct heal isn't?

edit: ok I admit it has uses but it's really not that awesome of a spell, especially since it takes up a buffslot and heals less than the lower level direct heal.
 
I would just like to point out that as a cleric with max heal AA's (Sych) I always used CH in grind groups, unlike the people above who said above it's basically not worth it. The bottom line is that it is much more mana efficient, especially since I exp in fast paced groups where mana efficiency is at a premium. Granted, Sych is nowhere near end game and I have no relics, but if that is the standard then we have a lot more to discuss.
 
Do you sometimes think about just letting someone die out of boredom? Because if I relied solely on CH that’s what I would do.
 
guyvertoo said:
Do you sometimes think about just letting someone die out of boredom? Because if I relied solely on CH that’s what I would do.
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:mad: I'm pretty sure you've already done this in groups I was in, Gtoo.
 
I've never used CH in any groups, ever. Unless the MT was anal about using it, the spell just wasn't worth the long casting time risk. Not using it becomes even more apparent as you gain AA's. The only reason CH was used in raids is because it was dependable about healing to max every time. Not having that luxury any more means that CH has lost it's usefullness. Slapping a 10 minute recast, shortening the casting to something in line with other heals and dropping the mana cost should at least ensure this spell sees some use in both grouping and raids.
 
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