Cleric Lifeward

B

Blubuds

Dalayan Beginner
OK i'm going to take my time and write this post but i'm to ask that you change the quest.

First of all the Athica faction is great. Fine and dandy not bad to farm and get the faction.

But when you need to get the parts,

1) I spent 6 hour in RSP killing what I could 2 boxing and the ph's for giants I got 3 to spawn.
3 no drops. After that I had to raid came back and they were camped. So we formed up and killed everything in zone including goblins.(That makes you kos and the quest harder to complete but what are you suppose to do let the people die that are helping you because they have goblin agro) The spawn rate for FG's jumped we were getting them left and right.
Your Faction standing with the server has gone down.

2) Ok so you move on to kedge in zone with a group another guild comes in and starts killing way down only to realize you are already there. Was polite no big deal. After you get bloodfang to spawn we wiped in the process other in zone quickly moved in for the kill. However I did get them to help me get my piece, After bitching a little. Wanted to clear this up a little more for those that posted after this. After we wiped the tank I had at the time had to go for RL reasons. So they were given the Go Ahead to take it and I even helped them do it. This was more to show the we hvae more than one cleric after it.
Your faction standing with the server has gone down.

3) Ok time for EC so you get a group of 7 start taking down icegaints. No issues a few deaths but what ever. A guild comes in to take the mob behind them and pulls them. Ok we had done quite a few but go figure theres my drop on the first on they kill. So now your pissed off and people with you had already started doing shouts and bitching. (was also told we had the pull inc to I petitioned it hoping I would get somewhere.) Update loged out petiton was never redone. Manly tanks to a tell I got from a few of there people offering to help me get it on respawn. But judging by the tells I got they have a GM in guild cuz they knew it was me and starting bitching. OK the raid rules state who ever has 12 I think in zone gets rights to it. what is some people raid it and other can one group it. Thats not really fair to those that were killing the area already. So what happens here yet to find out. Keep in mind I didn't say anything.
Your faction standing with "said guild" couldn't get any worse.
So again your faction standing with the server has gotten worst.

3) ok move to the Sorcs lab no big deal not many people there. Then yet again people move in and blah blah same story another day. By this time your ready to pull your hair out and say fuck it.
And rant a little.
Your faction with the server has couldn't get any worse.

So IMO by the time you get done with this you have pissed off at least 2 guilds and begged for help that noone wants to go to for a clicky rez shield for raids.

There has to be a better way to do this or move some things around so that this doesn't happen.

Suggestions
1) Don't make everyone Kos to goblins to start. (Yes I know your going to say hunt Grotto and you won't be) - ok I understand that but how am I suppose to know who's going to be willing to help and that would add even more strain on this quest

2) add another way to Raid mobs so you don't' have to kill what people need. Or simply move them well before the raid area and lesser mobs in between or something/

3) make the mobs more avalible to be killed so were not fighting over them. yes I know it's first one to agro .. but that sill pisses people off and most of us don't do that because it's not 1) polite 2) friendly 3) good way to loose friends.

So I hope you understand why this has been posted about this quest has been nothing but hell for me,
I have lost alot of respect even tho 90% of the time i didn't say anything. A few clerics I have talked 2 have had to battle this out as well but I don't see how this is fun at all.


Update: So again this wasn't an Attack anyone was more showing a reason for the quest to be looked at .. i'm sorry I guess I offened alot of people. :-/
 
You can invis to the room where you do the handin, pop DA, and do the handin while invuln. (for the redsun part)

It's unfortunate and crazy that people were actually after the same stuff in everchill, kedge, and sorcs lab, as those locations are empty 99% of the time. The raid mobs in EC are 4.5 day respawns, and the giants are 8 hours, but yeah its really bad that another guild came in on top of you and took your giants. The drop in RSP is random, not gonna lie I got mine in about 1 hour, but people have spent well over 20 hours camping the piece, its all luck. The quest reward is totally worth it, you'll never stop using it, ever.

Basically, I don't see a good reason to change this stuff, it is contested some what, but I am pretty sure its not like there is a 24 hour camp going on in RSP.
 
Being from the mentioned guild in Everchill, I'm very sorry we came in on top of you in Everchill. But Motec and GotSS ARE raid mobs and you aren't a raid. I don't care if you can solo Motec. You can't claim him if you have 1 person and a gang of 12 comes up. I greatly apologize that we had to kill your giants to get to our raid mobs, they're kinda in the way. If we had an hour (or the patience) to sit and wait for you to do it, we would.

As to the rest, Eldorath's right. You have the most obscene bad luck ever if there's always been a group in whatever place you go to. Kedge is empty 9 times outta 10. RSM is empty 9 times outta 10. Sorcs Lab isn't usually empty, but Eerizal is never camped.

The actual amount of people who care about their goblin faction is minimal. If you can't find anyone willing to help you massacre your way to the forge, you're asking the wrong guys. The RSP portion is supposed to be a bottleneck so not everybody is running around with clickie shields. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. I'm loathed in CW because I got my shard on my first FG kill. Others camped him for months. Such is life.

As far as I can tell, you've had the worst luck I've ever seen with doing your Lifeward. Just because you're unlucky is no reason to change the entire quest which nobody else has had your kinds of problems with.
 
Let's just get one thing straight. The giant I pulled had me and me alone on the aggro list. I don't care what mr V claimed whom I will refer to as mr V because I can't spell his name, he was too busy staring down the two pull to care. I walked up to that giant, I aggro'd that giant. It was all me. All mr V did was run the hell out of the way when he saw me and a giant on my tail. He or whoever can claim til the end of time I "KS" them but the fact remains I'm a very strict follower of rules, period, and frankly I frown apon false claims. I know it sucks to have a raid come in on top of you but making false claims gets you no where. We certainly aren't just going to wait on a group of 7 to kill the giants standing in our way to mote, and it certainly doesn't matter if a guild can one group a raid target, it's still a raid target and raid rules do stand, obviously.

We tried to make up for walking right in behind you and start killing by inviting I assume you to our raid for the other giants and so neither guild would be wiping the other. Why? Because that's who CW is. We actually care to not walk all over you with disrespect(and seriously it can be debated til the end of time whether or not me walking up on a giant and pulling it WITH NO ONE ELSE TOUCHING IT is a good thing or a bad thing but as far as I was concerned, we were headed to mote, giants were in our way, your puller tank was looking the other way towards that two pull. One can assume you see a raid next to you and nothing needs to be said. I don't think we need to ask permission to kill. You know why we're there. We could have just asked you to leave and be total jerks about the rules but we didn't. We were fine with killing the two to three giants leading up to Mote and letting you have the others but apparently mr V had a big problem with us touching any ice giants because you were there first) I then hear a bit later I just got whining and false complaints of KSing, even so far as CW has GMs in our guild so why we "got away" with "KSing", for my trouble of trying to help. Nevermind that I never got a thank you for trying to help, just a comment about how you'll have to wait still on your lifeward and a prompt disband raid, though I did get a thank you previously from mr V for letting you in raid and taking care of the other giants that you guys couldn't split just for you. After all we realized we should have at least been kind enough to let you know we were about to kill ice giants, so we tried to make up for it by killing the rest for you so you could be on your way sooner than later.

Again I know it sucks that the first one we kill dropped the lifeward piece for us and not you but frankly we just aren't going to sit around and wait for you to clear giants. I had no problem personally just letting PR go and clear all the ice giants for us regardless we had one clr that needed it just because you were there first but sadly I'm just one person and I have a raid that demands to get stuff done, not waiting around 30 minutes for a 7 person wrecking crew to kill ice giants. CW isn't going to wait around nor is Forsaken nor is PR nor is Revelation nor is Fusion nor is Bane nor is Steel nor is anyone. It's great that a guild can one group lower end raid targets but when a guild comes in that needs upgrades from the area, in force as 18, you can't expect them to standby and let you have your way because you're higher up in the raid game.

So, you know, maybe we slipped up there by not at least announcing our goal to kill Mote and that we were going to kill the giants standing in our way. It certainly would have saved both guilds from this pointless drama and we would have had some bad blood at best just because it's only human nature to curse the given situation of killing raid content with just a group of people and having a 18 man raid come in behind you. It's sad now that we have to live with any bad blood but that's life in the world of gaming. Everyone has goals to complete and you're just going to make enemies no matter how hard you try not to. But what's done is done, chalk up another regret and learn from it. Next time we cross paths I'll make damn sure I speak up with what my raids plans are because apparently I'm required to so I don't get false claims of KSing.

Now mind you I understand it isn't you bitching here about KSing and whatnot. But the bottom line is, we weren't jerks in the least bit, we didn't leapfrog you, we didn't KS you. You were a force of 7, we were a force of 18. We started clearing whatever you weren't engaged on that stood in our way to Mote, minding our biz. And I like the rules as is for the record because it prevents a high end guild from taking low end content away from low end guilds, or it prevents someone from holding content for more to log on. It sucks that a drop for lifeward is among mobs that require a raid or a tier 6+ geared group and stuff like tonight happens so maybe this one part of lifeward should be fixed, but then how often does times like tonight happen anyway?
 
OK you were somehow inside the rules, but
One can assume you see a raid next to you and nothing needs to be said. I don't think we need to ask permission to kill.
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At least you admitted somewhere later in your wall of text, you could have been more polite and communicate a bit. Even if it means for your GM telling the group "this is a raid part of the zone, please leave until we're finished", in the end it's the same result. Maybe you just didn't want to look like bad people ? For me it makes a bigger jerk the way you guys done it.
l'll keep this story in mind for further similar situations.
 
:psyduck: Guys I just wanted to make it clear I kept names and Guild names out of my post I wasn't aiming for just you I wasn't singling you out. It was a request for The GM's look into.

I wasn't aiming to start more drama with it thats why I left all the names out.

And yes I understand waiting is boring as hell and no one wants to do it. (granted there an 8 hour spawn and even us would have killed them all till I got my drop.)

However can we get the finger pointing and blaming out of this tread. I want it to be taken as a few reasons the guest should be modified by changing a few things. Not for people to "smuck" it up with bickering.

I'm over what happened yeah it sucks but it can't be changed now.
My Main concern is the drama you have to endure doing this quest no matter what it seems, and how much it ruins your reputation.
 
Botiemaster said:
I know it sucks to have a raid come in on top of you but making false claims gets you no where. We certainly aren't just going to wait on a group of 7 to kill the giants standing in our way to mote, and it certainly doesn't matter if a guild can one group a raid target, it's still a raid target and raid rules do stand, obviously.
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THIS IS JUST A EXAMPLE. (and a request for clarification)

Say you have a nice ubar group killing ig's to get back to Mott (or what ever his name it)
and a group that COULD take him alone. Raid pops in with 12 or more whatever. But your already clearing to him. So that gives the Raid rights to him even though that was you intended target? Over the group that would be already going for him?

Keep in mind this wasn't the case. I just want to know.
 
The quest is long, but worthwhile. It is comparable to the usefulness of the shaman "epic" mask, except that you will NEVER stop clicking that shield. Great quests take time and even with your "bad luck" many clerics have spent double the time you have on the quest.

Just keep grinding and farming and you will eventually get it done.
Blubuds said:
THIS IS JUST A EXAMPLE. (and a request for clarification)

Say you have a nice ubar group killing ig's to get back to Mott (or what ever his name it)
and a group that COULD take him alone. Raid pops in with 12 or more whatever. But your already clearing to him. So that gives the Raid rights to him even though that was you intended target? Over the group that would be already going for him?

Keep in mind this wasn't the case. I just want to know.
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You have to have at least 12 people in a zone to "claim" a raid zone/wing.
 
Botiemaster said:
It sucks that a drop for lifeward is among mobs that require a raid or a tier 6+ geared group and stuff like tonight happens so maybe this one part of lifeward should be fixed, but then how often does times like tonight happen anyway?
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Umm did you read my post has happened EVERY step of the way so far.
So I would say stuff like that must happen more often than it should.

Again not atking you just making a point.
 
[quote author=Spiritplx link=topic=15395.msg141797#msg141797 date=1195049538

You have to have at least 12 people in a zone to "claim" a raid zone/wing.


So even is you have 2 mobs left to kill your target cuz a raid zones in they have rights and you suddenly can't touch it pfft.
 
Blubuds said:
So even is you have 2 mobs left to kill your target cuz a raid zones in they have rights and you suddenly can't touch it pfft.
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Basicaly on SoD NO camps are enforced. The only things that are enforced are raid targets, and you must be the first guild to get 12 characters to a zone or a wing to claim it. MOST people will be polite about just coming in and taking mobs, however, as was previously discussed...a guild will not wait on a group to "finish up" while they are trying to raid. If the situation was discussed, you could have tried to squeeze in to the raid while they did the IG, but I am not exactly sure what all went down. Some guilds would be more than happy to help you out, while others might be full or would not want to drop someone.
 
Actually he did sqeeze in to the raid, I dropped my cleric for his and they killed the remaining 5-6 or so Giants.
 
Xardon said:
Actually he did sqeeze in to the raid, I dropped my cleric for his and they killed the remaining 5-6 or so Giants.
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Knowing this, I don't even see why this was brought up...
 
:psyduck: you seem to be focus one part of the complaint about the quest not the entire fight about all of the parts.
 
I already addressed your quest concerns, I am just saying I am not sure why the part about other guilds moving in ahead of you was brought up if it was handled like this. If you had questions about how the protocol works, you could have made a separate post.
 
I have worked to get Lifeward for 5 different clerics now, including my own, and have never run into conflicts in any of those zones. Unless you're trying to bang it off in a day, if you're patient you can get any of those camps easily. Bloodfang spawns are an hour or so, Ice Giants are 8 hours while the raid targets are 4.5 days, and the Labyrinth mob is under an hour (with a PH, but the named drops the shield every time).

As for the goblin faction, you don't have to kill the goblins to get the FGs to spawn. Killing everything else in the zone works fine. Have someone non-kos to goblins do the pulling, or go spend a few hours in FG to get someone non-kos to do the pulling.

As to your Kedge experience, with raid mobs I believe if you wiped you had 30 minutes to recover before someone else could come in and take it out... not sure if this would apply to Bloodfang or not, but I hope it would if you actually got him to spawn. If you did spawn him, and the others came in and took him out after you wiped without giving you a chance, it's THEIR faction with the server that should go down, not yours.

Overall I think the quest is fine. It's long and a bit tedious, but the reward is worth it... you will NEVER replace it. It really shouldn't be doable in a day without extreme luck, and it really shouldn't be easy.

Blubuds said:
So even is you have 2 mobs left to kill your target cuz a raid zones in they have rights and you suddenly can't touch it pfft.
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Yes. Because if you're able to do a raid mob with one group, you really shouldn't be killing it anyway. People on that tier who need a raid to do it really should have priority.
 
Blubuds said:
2) Ok so you move on to kedge in zone with a group another guild comes in and starts killing way down only to realize you are already there. Was polite no big deal. After you get bloodfang to spawn we wiped in the process other in zone quickly moved in for the kill. Lame however I did get them to help me get my piece, After bitching a little.
Your faction standing with the server has gone down.
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Uhm.

* I am sorry friend, but I have a totally different version of what happened. And I'll have to tell it since yours make us look like semi-offenders, wich I dislike.

Both groups arrived in Cauldron around the same time, but yours zoned in first. Since we were probably 2 minutes and a half late, you can guess that the group was pretty sadface, considering we were also headed to the spawns of Bloodfang. I proposed Dz to create a small raid for it but none of us were too hot on it, as it would have included randoming at some point. It would have meant that you or us would have to stay till the other gets his part; the fact we once spent over 3 hours to spawn Bloodfang was another reason why I didn't insist.

After a moment of reflexion, we zone in to exp in Kedge until you are done. Seeing that you were with Dz, I was pretty confident it would be done pretty fast. We made sure you and us would never pull on each other.

We did the classic exp rotation there (pit, piranhas, blade, spike, traps) for a good hour, at least 2 rotations.
Then someone in the group says you are all dead. We debate wether or not we should try to go there, try to go there to rez you, or not move at all. Someone in communication with you says you are going to try and recover, so we decide not to move at all. I have always hated having someone on my heels ready to kill the mob I had spawned on Live, I wasn't going to do so here. So we continue on our rotation, until someone says you give up on the recovery (your own words).
To make it clear, you could have tried several times to recover, and we wouldn't have moved in until you said you'd give up.

At that moment, we decide indeed to take our chance, and call for some more of the guild. But we so "quickly moved in", that I stayed AFK for a good 15 mins calling my girlfriend, and waiting for the others. You stayed there, obviously in the hopes you could tag along, but didn't ask. I wasn't too hot on it until the situation was clear.
Finally you asked if you could come, and I told you I didn't have the time to stay too long, but that we would clear a full round of spawns of bloodfang to give you a chance at it, since we were going to kill the one you spawned.

That's what we did, and we even came back there after our wipe to kill the newly spawned Bloodfang for you. And we sincerely rejoiced when you got your piece.

I really fail to see us:
1) Start killing our way down to realize you were there: we both knew we were there even since we were in Cauldron of dawn, and we made sure to never bump into you or compete with the spawns you were clearing on your way.
2) Quickly moving in for the kill after your wipe:
- We did wait for Dz to try and recover, and would have waited for as many tries as needed. We never sent you tells to pressure you and push you to recover faster. We did even avoid pulling what I'd call the start of "your" area (guardian sharks and piranhas) to make sure there could be no confusion. We were pulling the traps down the east cuby when you gave up.
- We were by no means quick to move in since we did wait for you to recover, and did wait for reinforcement for at least 15 mins after you called it off. We then did buff (with someone doing the account dance to get a chanter down there), and moved in.
3) You didn't have to bitch in. You asked, and got an answer. I couldn't have proposed you anything earlier, since my playtime was linked to when my girlfriend was going to come back home, hence the 15 mins AFK.

I don't understand how you could lose factions with the server with what happened. We were happy to help at our level.

And of course it was polite: both groups stayed in tells during the whole thing. Dz and I are both french and communicate pretty easily. And I never saw a sign of tension, or anything that would lead me to think we were pushing on your back to get to the spawn.
I am puzzled. I consider what happened yesterday as a model of people not stepping on each others toes. Both groups did communicate. We got you on our raid, you got your piece... I wish all the groups/guilds that are both wanting the same targets would act the same, we would never need GMs anymore :psyduck:.

* As for the rest of your message, it really sounds like bad luck. But keep in mind it can be far worse. Thor camped the fire giants for around 60 hours, I think. It totally drove him nuts. We stayed several hours down there in Kedge for his piece as well, and had to do the ice giants at least twice. As for Chafe's Eerizar piece, it took us 6 hours to spawn it 3 days ago...

* I know you would prefer to discuss the way the quest is set and all, but I couldn't let this go without having my word.

Edit: spelling
 
GuiardoTuneweaver said:
Yes. Because if you're able to do a raid mob with one group, you really shouldn't be killing it anyway. People on that tier who need a raid to do it really should have priority.
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Not sure I agree on that logic not everyone is in a raid guild and if one group can do it then it's really not a raid target for them now is it? Leap frogging ahead of people is pretty disrespectful if that's what happened I feel sorry for the group that got screwed for being the little guys. To say anyone deserves priority over the other is silly there should be a simple dice roll rule in the case of camp competition and no one should be able to actively control more than one camp at a time and only be able to hold one camp for about three hours which is around the duration of a full buff cycle that's just my take on it though, but what do I know I just play the damn game and try to avoid this leap frog drama.
 
knowom said:
Not sure I agree on that logic not everyone is in a raid guild and if one group can do it then it's really not a raid target for them now is it?
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By this logic, SK isn't a raid zone since anyone above the lower tiers can do the entire thing with a single group and therefore cannot be claimed by a raid.

Look, here's the flat fact. If you're CAPABLE of killing a raid target with anything less than a raid (12 people minimum), then you probably don't need whatever said target drops and you shouldn't be doing him. I don't care if you do him or not, if you're farming gear for a twink or something. But when an actual raid comes up to do the mob, you need to back down. You're not a raid, they are, end of story. That's how the rules go.

This is an entirely moot point however as the group wasn't after MotE. They were just killing IGs for the Lifeward piece. And you know what? If they had been working their way to MotE, we probably would have ignored them and skipped straight to GotSS.
 
Quote from: Blubuds on Yesterday at 08:10:57 PM

2) Ok so you move on to kedge in zone with a group another guild comes in and starts killing way down only to realize you are already there. Was polite no big deal. After you get bloodfang to spawn we wiped in the process other in zone quickly moved in for the kill. Lame however I did get them to help me get my piece, After bitching a little.
Your faction standing with the server has gone down.

Dang man I "guess" your welcome for the help on yor bloodfang drop. It's almost sad how you are totally twisting the story in kedge to make your arguement sounds much better. You guys had allready given up on recovery. It seemed you wanted to "hang around" in hopes we would help you get your drop. A drop that we did infact help you get after your party wiped.

You were right about one thing though. You did bitch a lot about "you" not getting the first bloodfang drop. Sorry to break it to you man, but we support our guild members first. Hence why I said "Grats Chafe" the instant I saw the drop on bloodfang.

We did stay and help you get your drop after the fact.

So umm yeah "Your welcome I guess..."

I spend a long long time on my lifeward on Thorgauld. I don't see any reason at all what so ever to change the quest. It's very easy to get if you have the support of firends. I did spend over 60 hours on everburning life solo for over a week of farming, but you know what??? When I did get the drop it ment more to me.. The shield itselfs means more for the effort I put into it, and my friends.

So man stop complaining about the quest. It's easy to do and it doesn't need to be changed at all..
 
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