Charm Hand-in Prices

Having a 100% return would be the same as them being droppable since you could buy it... return it, give the money to someone else, who would then buy it and wear it till whenever.

Getting back 2/3s of your purchase price kind of sucks, but it keeps the charm bouncing thing from happening. I think the "charm credit" quest idea was the best thing that could be done. That way, you could get back your full 100% purchase price back towards the purchase of an upgrade without any chance of that money ever being put back into the economy.
 
The problem with the current system, is as someone said.
Charms are currently a 'placeholder' for your PP while you wait to upgrade to a higher one. The return rate, while lame, penalizes you for using a lower charm as a PH.
When you're able to sell them back to the vendor for actual PP, that money isn't gone, so a 100% return rate doesn't make sense.

The original idea behind my 'charm credits' was that the PP spent on charms would be out of the economy entirely, forever.

I have no idea how hard it would be to code, but replacing the PP with some kind of charm credit would mean that you could essentially have a 100% return rate without sending that PP back into the economy. In the end, it would cost a player 1.2M pp to get their uber charm, regardless of their method of progression. 1.2M pp is gone forever.

The only issue with that, is it will make me not want to buy a 'good' charm for any twinks/alts, because that money would be stuck on that character forever in the form of these charm credits.
 
Alton said:
I have no idea how hard it would be to code, but replacing the PP with some kind of charm credit would mean that you could essentially have a 100% return rate without sending that PP back into the economy. In the end, it would cost a player 1.2M pp to get their uber charm, regardless of their method of progression. 1.2M pp is gone forever.
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I actually really like this idea, once I was able to wrap my head around it.
 
Wouldn't it be easier to just give back 100% of the plat, but increase the cost of the charms accordingly?

So for an example, now: you sell your 100 plat charm and get 66 plat back. Now you buy the 200 plat charm and you need another 134 plat plus your 66 that you got back to buy the 200 plat charm.

Instead: you sell your 100 plat charm and get 100 plat back. The 200 plat charm now costs 234 plat, so you are still paying the same amount for the upgrade (134 more plat). You accomplish the same thing without some extra "charm credit" non-plat system, which would only further complicate things here.


But honestly, what is the difference? What everything here boils down to is that people feel the charms are too expensive to upgrade. If the devs feel it's a good balance, then that's that. If they feel they want to adjust things, I'm sure they will. But other than bumping the price up and down the only reason to allow you to get more plat for your old charms would be to spend that plat on something that is not a charm - which goes against the whole idea of a plat sink to take money out of the economy so I doubt it will happen. Every other problem can probably be solved simply by adjusting the actual charm prices themselves.
 
Sibro said:
Wouldn't it be easier to just give back 100% of the plat, but increase the cost of the charms accordingly?

So for an example, now: you sell your 100 plat charm and get 66 plat back. Now you buy the 200 plat charm and you need another 134 plat plus your 66 that you got back to buy the 200 plat charm.

Instead: you sell your 100 plat charm and get 100 plat back. The 200 plat charm now costs 234 plat, so you are still paying the same amount for the upgrade (134 more plat). You accomplish the same thing without some extra "charm credit" non-plat system, which would only further complicate things here.
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What....... why? why would you think this is a viable solution? you are basically making the same "problem" and increasing prices across the board
 
Eh, a 90% return rate would be more reasonable (since that was the same just about as you got reselling to a player). Reselling to a player, or to the vendor, either way, 99% of the time the money gotten from selling an old charm goes into a new charm
 
The big complaint isn't with charm prices. It is with their vendor resale prices penalzing you so heavily when that time comes.

The issue with most suggestions is that charms are supposed to take money OUT of the economy.
Being able to swap your 500k charm in for cash is really only removing the 'return penalty' out after each sale.
The rest of that pp is still sitting there, just in a different form. This is the part that needs fixing.

Make buying a charm remove 100% of the pp used from the economy forever.
No reselling it for cash, ever. Put in place some kind of upgrade system with no penalty for trading in your old charm. Call it credits, call it what ever you want.

If the PP never can re-enter the economy, there isn't a reason to penalize joe ranger for upgrading from his gimp 6k charm to his 68k trueshot.
The system is more healthy for the server, and players 'lose' nothing upgrading. Everyone is more happy. Win.
 
I really like the idea of getting the 100% refounded as credit not PP. I think it will benefit everyone and will still serve the purpose. thre was some credit system that EQ live started with dungeons of Norrath and continued with Dragons expansion which I think it may work.
 
Alton said:
The big complaint isn't with charm prices. It is with their vendor resale prices penalzing you so heavily when that time comes.

The issue with most suggestions is that charms are supposed to take money OUT of the economy.
Being able to swap your 500k charm in for cash is really only removing the 'return penalty' out after each sale.
The rest of that pp is still sitting there, just in a different form. This is the part that needs fixing.

Make buying a charm remove 100% of the pp used from the economy forever.
No reselling it for cash, ever. Put in place some kind of upgrade system with no penalty for trading in your old charm. Call it credits, call it what ever you want.

If the PP never can re-enter the economy, there isn't a reason to penalize joe ranger for upgrading from his gimp 6k charm to his 68k trueshot.
The system is more healthy for the server, and players 'lose' nothing upgrading. Everyone is more happy. Win.
Click to expand...

IMO, this is really a great idea.
 
Alton said:
The big complaint isn't with charm prices. It is with their vendor resale prices penalzing you so heavily when that time comes.

The issue with most suggestions is that charms are supposed to take money OUT of the economy.
Being able to swap your 500k charm in for cash is really only removing the 'return penalty' out after each sale.
The rest of that pp is still sitting there, just in a different form. This is the part that needs fixing.

Make buying a charm remove 100% of the pp used from the economy forever.
No reselling it for cash, ever. Put in place some kind of upgrade system with no penalty for trading in your old charm. Call it credits, call it what ever you want.

If the PP never can re-enter the economy, there isn't a reason to penalize joe ranger for upgrading from his gimp 6k charm to his 68k trueshot.
The system is more healthy for the server, and players 'lose' nothing upgrading. Everyone is more happy. Win.
Click to expand...

Alton please read:
TapeinV said:
Eh, a 90% return rate would be more reasonable (since that was the same just about as you got reselling to a player). Reselling to a player, or to the vendor, either way, 99% of the time the money gotten from selling an old charm goes into a new charm
Click to expand...

If you get 100% back from your charm, there is no penalty for buying a lower charm as a placeholder for the cash you are going to be using to buy the better charm. Sure the physical platinum may be out of the economy, but it is actually sitting there on your charm, which if it were sold would almost ALWAYS be used to buy a new charm. If you buy 36k, then trade it in for 100%, you only need to save up 176 to upgrade to the 212k, which leaves 12k in the economy which would have been taken out if you were given 66% back for your 36k charm. I hope that makes sense. The sellback percentage is designed to remove extra platinum from the economy at every step of upgrading a charm, instead of just the purchase prices.
 
guyvertoo said:
Alton please read:
If you get 100% back from your charm, there is no penalty for buying a lower charm as a placeholder for the cash you are going to be using to buy the better charm. Sure the physical platinum may be out of the economy, but it is actually sitting there on your charm, which if it were sold would almost ALWAYS be used to buy a new charm. If you buy 36k, then trade it in for 100%, you only need to save up 176 to upgrade to the 212k, which leaves 12k in the economy which would have been taken out if you were given 66% back for your 36k charm. I hope that makes sense. The sellback percentage is designed to remove extra platinum from the economy at every step of upgrading a charm, instead of just the purchase prices.
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...at what point during the process and discussions of charms going no drop - because they were *supposed* to be a plat sink, was it made the point that upgrades were supposed to be additional sinks? I was under the impression that the charms money coming out of the economy was the only point. Did Wiz or other staff make that a part of this somewhere that I missed - please link.
 
guyvertoo said:
Alton please read:
If you get 100% back from your charm, there is no penalty for buying a lower charm as a placeholder for the cash you are going to be using to buy the better charm. Sure the physical platinum may be out of the economy, but it is actually sitting there on your charm, which if it were sold would almost ALWAYS be used to buy a new charm. If you buy 36k, then trade it in for 100%, you only need to save up 176 to upgrade to the 212k, which leaves 12k in the economy which would have been taken out if you were given 66% back for your 36k charm. I hope that makes sense. The sellback percentage is designed to remove extra platinum from the economy at every step of upgrading a charm, instead of just the purchase prices.
Click to expand...

If a credit based system were implemented into the charm vendor, I personally don't see a problem with a 100% return rate. For one player to save up 1.2 mil over his entire life span on the server in my opinion is plenty of time spent farming items/cash loots for charms no matter how many he times he decides to upgrade his charm along the way. It would keep that planium out of the economy permanently and would lift a huge load off the people who are actually putting in the time farming day in and day out to upgrade to the charms passed the 200k mark. Also, I think if this system were put in you would see a lot more diversity as far as charms used on the server went, because quite honestly some charms just aren't worth the pp sink when you are X pp short of a better charm that will last you a much longer span of time.
 
should be something like this: you can sell your charm for 100% in a different monetary system, lets cal it charm credit for now, used only at the charm merchant. If you want regular cash(platinums) you can sell your charm for the penalty price at any other merchant. To make things easy the charms can only be bought with charm credit from the charm merchant. and charm merchant will have charm credits that you can buy for regular platinum. Charm credits will be no drop, thus none tradable. so with this scenario you have charms still be a money zink, none refoundable cash, but it helps easy the agruvation of people wasting so much cash and tiem when upgrading.
 
Mean Gorilla said:
If a credit based system were implemented into the charm vendor, I personally don't see a problem with a 100% return rate. For one player to save up 1.2 mil over his entire life span on the server in my opinion is plenty of time spent farming items/cash loots for charms no matter how many he times he decides to upgrade his charm along the way. It would keep that planium out of the economy permanently and would lift a huge load off the people who are actually putting in the time farming day in and day out to upgrade to the charms passed the 200k mark. Also, I think if this system were put in you would see a lot more diversity as far as charms used on the server went, because quite honestly some charms just aren't worth the pp sink when you are X pp short of a better charm that will last you a much longer span of time.
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You bring up a very good point regarding charm diversity. Whether or not it is so important, it is surely a valid point nonetheless.

How many people do you see with the 100k charms?
 
Alton said:
I have no idea how hard it would be to code, but replacing the PP with some kind of charm credit would mean that you could essentially have a 100% return rate without sending that PP back into the economy. In the end, it would cost a player 1.2M pp to get their uber charm, regardless of their method of progression. 1.2M pp is gone forever.
Click to expand...
IMMA CALLING YOU OUT WIZ (AND CHARGIN MAH LAZER). Is this something thats possible? It sounds like editing the client, which I thought was no-no.
 
Alton said:
Make the charms No drop. Make the resale value of all charms ZERO pp.
Put in a 'quest' that lets you hand your current charm to the charm vendor, and receive its current PP resale value (80%?) in 'charm credits'.
When player goes to buy a new charm, its price is reduced by the # of charm credits he currently has.

Once a player buys any charm, that PP is out of the economy forever.
However, if a player later wants to upgrade, they're not penalized for buying a lesser charm first.
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Wiz said:
This would be pretty damn difficult to implement but it's worth considering.
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Is it possible to make a series of quests which take charms plus the difference to the next upgrade in platinum and give you that upgraded version?
Then for equally priced tiers do the same thing many quests do to get different rewards. "If you do not wish this version, please return it to me and I will give you a different one"

Juggo + 325231p = Eternal
or
Juggo = Diabolic = Holy Charm of Protection

edit:
Starting at balance, there are 9 tiers. I'd say keep it to these and forget hand in credit for the lower ones because that doubles the amount of price tiers. Or course I'm going to be accused of oppressing the working man, with that suggestion.
 
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