One thing that ive noticed that pissed me off in EQlive as well as WR is caster mobs. All the casters hit just as hard, and have as many HP as a Warrior mob of the same level. Youd think they would be more on par with a PC caster. Ive realy noticed it in First ruins, where the warlocks inbetween quading me in the 30's nuke the living shit out of me. I mean why do these casters get all the same mellee skills as a warrior, and the dps of a wizard? Youd think that they would be jsut like a pc caster, weak as all hell mellee wise but powerful spell wise. They shouldnt get the best of both worlds imo.
Caster Mobs
- Thread starter Boden
- Start date
I feel your pain.
Everfrost .. on that peninsula.. stay away from the orc shamans. They will Blind you, root you, dot you, and beat the hell out of you like they were a well-equipped warrior. I got worked soloing there as a necro. Even with my full bag of tricks I couldn't defeat them consistently.
Everfrost .. on that peninsula.. stay away from the orc shamans. They will Blind you, root you, dot you, and beat the hell out of you like they were a well-equipped warrior. I got worked soloing there as a necro. Even with my full bag of tricks I couldn't defeat them consistently.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
I loved caster mobs on live, and I love 'em here. If you have the right tools / expertise, they're significantly weaker than normal mobs. All the time they spend casting a spell is time they don't spend punching your head, and if their spell is interrupted somehow, they never get that dps back. Barring that, I can take all their mana away, turning them into weaker melee mobs (they don't melee 'just as well', though it's close, they're still not as good at it as straight warrior mobs). Just make sure everyone in the party has relevant resist buffs, and the spells will bounce off of you pretty often anyway.
Rule number one for caster mobs is to dispel them. Especially at higher levels. One dinky 50 mana dispel can take away a boatload of HP in self-buffs--just pay attention to what class of mob you're fighting; shammy and enchanter mobs ESPECIALLY need to be dispeled.
Plus their pets are extra xp for free, and it's pretty hard to say no to that. They can be CC'd so easily it's insane and they die with the momma does.
Rule number one for caster mobs is to dispel them. Especially at higher levels. One dinky 50 mana dispel can take away a boatload of HP in self-buffs--just pay attention to what class of mob you're fighting; shammy and enchanter mobs ESPECIALLY need to be dispeled.
Plus their pets are extra xp for free, and it's pretty hard to say no to that. They can be CC'd so easily it's insane and they die with the momma does.
It's called "strategy". Caster mobs are suppose to be horrid. I don't know if they hit too hard, but I'm not quite sure they have as many hps as warrior mobs.
In Eldenals the wizards go down alot faster than the melee mobs, thats for sure, for have less hps. They nuke hard, but with the right classes they are nothing at all. Take a pally/chanter/wizard, or anything with bash, or stun, and the caster won't even hit you the whole fight, because it'll be trying to cast one spell over and over. I think that balances it out, pretty much.
In Eldenals the wizards go down alot faster than the melee mobs, thats for sure, for have less hps. They nuke hard, but with the right classes they are nothing at all. Take a pally/chanter/wizard, or anything with bash, or stun, and the caster won't even hit you the whole fight, because it'll be trying to cast one spell over and over. I think that balances it out, pretty much.
The mobs can cast the spell again before you can use it again.. and if you miss it, wootang.Casters ARE overpowered. Bragging about how "you noobs don't know how to kill them" or "duh lolz I can solo 8 at once while I spank it to pictures of your mom" is stupid. What's your point? "Caster's aren't overpowered! You just need to cast this spell then that spell then that spell then that spell in order to get them down to the level where they are even conned with melee classes of the same level!" Have you ever seen a PC chanter chain-cast stun while mezzing two other players effectively wiping out a 3-person group even though it's a blue mob? Have you ever seen a PC cleric alternate between nukes and stuns taking you from 100% to 0 without you ever having the chance to move? Have you ever seen a level 30 shaman cast SCOURGE?
The argument isn't whether or not casters are beatable, it's whether they are worth beating. The xp they render vs. the challenge they present is lopsided. They chain cast spells that are supposed to have very long recast times, their spells are always annoyingly unresistable, they are flat out overpowered. At least on EQlive they cast their spells according to the same rules that PCs had to go by.
The argument isn't whether or not casters are beatable, it's whether they are worth beating. The xp they render vs. the challenge they present is lopsided. They chain cast spells that are supposed to have very long recast times, their spells are always annoyingly unresistable, they are flat out overpowered. At least on EQlive they cast their spells according to the same rules that PCs had to go by.
caster mobs HAVE to act like that due to the somewhat primitive AI of EQ adn WR, etc.
A caster mob will not kite you, or strategically set you up to be snared and boxed in by meleers, or shadowstep away from a meleer if in a tight spot.
Thats why they act like warriors with huge procs on their fists.
A caster mob will not kite you, or strategically set you up to be snared and boxed in by meleers, or shadowstep away from a meleer if in a tight spot.
Thats why they act like warriors with huge procs on their fists.
Straw man fallacy, they are still overpowered. Part of your argument is that NPCs should be allowed to chain cast because otherwise it would be unfair to the NPCs? What about melees? It's pretty unfair that they don't have spells; you should give them some. Just because a caster is facing 6 characters doesn't mean he should be buffed to hell to compensate. I solo 75% of the time because I don't like getting stuck in newbie groups, and I NEED full mana to POSSIBLY take a caster that's three levels lower than me when I can take a melee of the same level and type with 30-50m. Have I ever faces 6 mobs? Let me chain cast screaming terror and I could easily. As for NPC being easier to resist than PC spells, I assume you mean they are both casting on a PC, because otherwise there's no way this could be true. I have NEVER resisted a spell from a blue+ mob. However, the same blue mob that will ALWAYS land his spells on me may resist 2-3 of my spells and partial resist another 2-3(with max focus/mind).Wiz said:
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
Straw man fallacy? I was just countering points were you were factually incorrect.
I'm thinking you need to read up on your fallacies, buddy.
Your NEVER!!!! EVER!!!! anecdotal (and probably exceptionally exaggerated) statements aside, no. You gain more out of every resist point when being cast on by a NPC.
I'm thinking you need to read up on your fallacies, buddy.
Your NEVER!!!! EVER!!!! anecdotal (and probably exceptionally exaggerated) statements aside, no. You gain more out of every resist point when being cast on by a NPC.
Devook said:
Actually with my resist magic buff on putting me up to only 70 or so MR, I have a habit of resisting the occasional spell from a mob that's red to me, blue mobs rarely are able to land a spell on me and white ones only land about half to three quarters of the time. I do agree though that casters are a bit over powered, a single froglok mage (I think it was that... I was away from the group when it happened) in Mielech A wiped out the other 5 of my party members, most of who were around 25.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:Wiz said:
1. Person A has position casters are overpowered.
2. Person B presents position casters are overpowered compared to PC casters of the same level.
3. Person B attacks position casters are overpowered compared to PC casters of the same level.
4. Therefore casters are overpowered is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Were we to "get back to" discussing caster mobs being overpowered, that would make the assumption that you had been participating in the original discussion, instead of just pointing out a few exaggerations used for emphasis.Wiz said:
Caster mobs are vastly overpowered compared to their non-caster counterparts. Convince me that they're not.
P.S. Saying "You said NEVER!!! You should have said 'most of the time!!!'" or telling me that my evidence is "anecdotal" (no duh, you have the code, not me. were I to parse every spell cast ever it would still be anecdotal as I am still presenting my experiences) is not an argument for "caster mobs aren't overpowered."
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that I am even doing anything other than pointing out the various lies and exaggerations that always pop up in these discussions. By "getting back to the discussion at hand" I was just hoping you'd start somehow contributing to it.
I'm sorry, but if you can't stick to the facts, you shouldn't be on these forums.
Essentially, you're flailing left and right and presenting skewed "observations". That's not making a case, and I like to call people on it because it lowers the general level of discourse. Present observations or anecdotal evidence if you want -- that's fine. But stop twisting it to make a point.
I'm sorry, but if you can't stick to the facts, you shouldn't be on these forums.
Essentially, you're flailing left and right and presenting skewed "observations". That's not making a case, and I like to call people on it because it lowers the general level of discourse. Present observations or anecdotal evidence if you want -- that's fine. But stop twisting it to make a point.
Saying things like
Pointing out that warriors do, in fact, hit slightly harder than their caster counterparts doesn't change the fact that an enchanter mob can bare-fisted double-hit me for 30 damage each, in between his chain stuns. You aren't stomping discourse, you're arguing semantics.
Is not pointing out a lie or fighting an exaggeration. It's presenting irrelevent information. The discussion is about casters being overpowered compared to their melee counterparts. What does how many characters a generic mob is fighting have to do with how it is balanced against other mobs its level. What does it have to do with risk vs. reward? A warrior mob fights 6 characters at once, that doesn't mean he should have a .1 second timer on his bash.Wiz said:
Pointing out that warriors do, in fact, hit slightly harder than their caster counterparts doesn't change the fact that an enchanter mob can bare-fisted double-hit me for 30 damage each, in between his chain stuns. You aren't stomping discourse, you're arguing semantics.