BST Group In-Combat Buff & Group Pet Buff

Haenir

Haenir

Dalayan Master
Idea 1: modify Cunning of the Beast spell line to be a temporary in-combat buff:
  • Reduce duration (10? ticks)
  • Reduce mana cost (50? mana)
  • Add overhaste (so the buff is useful to both caster/melee)
  • Edit: Reduce/eliminate cooldown
Idea 2: modify Savagery to be a pet specific buff:
  • change it to hit all pets in a group (entire raid?)
  • increase + resist mods
  • add some kind of proc, maybe something with a recourse that enhances the BST pet
  • increase buff duration (1 hour +)
  • keep the peridot reagent
 
Last edited:
Haenir said:
Idea 1: modify Cunning of the Beast spell line to be a temporary in-combat buff:
  • Reduce duration (10? ticks)
  • Reduce mana cost (50? mana)
  • Add overhaste (so the buff is useful to both caster/melee)
Idea 2: modify Savagery to be a pet specific buff:
  • change it to hit all pets in a group (entire raid?)
  • increase + resist mods
  • add some kind of proc, maybe something with a recourse that enhances the BST pet
  • increase buff duration (1 hour +)
  • keep the peridot reagent
Click to expand...
This is a nerf to beastlords. Their recent rework made their personal/pet DPS an acceptable level in conjunction with the DPS they contribute from savagery/cunning. Changing cunning to last 1 minute is a HUGE nerf, even if it does provide overhaste(which is mostly redundant in a raid, because of how many other sources of overhaste exist. Not even mentioning the fact that melee DPS are unlikely to be in the caster group on a raid). As for the Savagery change, a raidwide pet-only buff that gives nothing but a proc and some resist is absolutely horrible unless the proc is something incredibly gross, even then it makes beastlords even worse in 6 man groups
 
Tevinter said:
Changing cunning to last 1 minute is a HUGE nerf, even if it does provide overhaste(which is mostly redundant in a raid, because of how many other sources of overhaste exist. Not even mentioning the fact that melee DPS are unlikely to be in the caster group on a raid).
Click to expand...

It's not that infrequent that I've raided with 2 BST in the raid. And if the redundancy would be a problem, the % of overhaste added could be upped (kind of how Cunning is slightly better than Fiery). Or hell, use +ATTK instead of overhaste.

Also, adding a melee beneficial component would make BST more valuable in a grouping/6-man setting, no?

Tevinter said:
As for the Savagery change, a raidwide pet-only buff that gives nothing but a proc and some resist is absolutely horrible unless the proc is something incredibly gross, even then it makes beastlords even worse in 6 man groups
Click to expand...

What else could be added (other than a gross proc) to make it an equivalent/worthwhile change? I just liked the thought of BST being able to enhance a raids pets - the specifics are /shrug.
 
Haenir said:
It's not that infrequent that I've raided with 2 BST in the raid. And if the redundancy would be a problem, the % of overhaste added could be upped (kind of how Cunning is slightly better than Fiery). Or hell, use +ATTK instead of overhaste.

Also, adding a melee beneficial component would make BST more valuable in a grouping/6-man setting, no?

What else could be added (other than a gross proc) to make it an equivalent/worthwhile change? I just liked the thought of BST being able to enhance a raids pets - the specifics are /shrug.
Click to expand...
A 10 tic buff with a 14 minute cooldown seems less-than-stellar. As for savagery, a 100ATK buff with 50 resist all that you can keep on 3 melee DPS is pretty good. I guess you could change it to a crazy pet overhaste + proc combo, but why? Beastlords recently underwent a rework and seem to be in a pretty decent spot, no real reason to change them imo.
 
Tevinter said:
A 10 tic buff with a 14 minute cooldown seems less-than-stellar.
Click to expand...

Oops, forgot to say "eliminate/reduce cool down". The basic thought was that somatic bond and AoD are a pretty successful model in terms of in-combat buffs from a support class -- so why not have Cunning be more like them than the weird short/mid-duration buff it is currently.

Tevinter said:
As for savagery, a 100ATK buff with 50 resist all that you can keep on 3 melee DPS is pretty good. I guess you could change it to a crazy pet overhaste + proc combo, but why? Beastlords recently underwent a rework and seem to be in a pretty decent spot, no real reason to change them imo.
Click to expand...

For the flavor? I agree there is no compelling balance reason to change it, though again it is this weird short/mid-duration buff.
 
Buff or remake paragon. For an active ability its really underwhelming or becomes so really quick. I can't even think of a more disappointing AA that isn't druids call of the storm. Fucking buff bar sabotaging mod rod.

I hope call of the storm got reworked or something since I last played a druid.
 
I always liked the idea of it giving the druid (or maybe anyone) faster cast speeds, I could've sworn slaariel or someone said this wasn't possible with the older client or maybe it was just too much of a pain in the ass. I know live added in those spell speed buffs later on though so maybe in the future we can save call of the storms(or paragon).
 
With people casting cunning and savagery out of group on basically every high end fight now, this is going to need looking at. These spells were designed to bring reasons for having a BL in the group, all they are now are reasons for parking a BL outside certain fights for buff. I am going to talk with staff and figure a way around it, I have some ideas, but yeah, this has just become silly. BLs should have a compelling reason to be brought into a group and stay there.
 
I can understand why people would use bst for buffs in the way they do, whether it's "needed" or not.

I agree the best way to fix this issue is by fixing savagery/cunning itself instead of make incredibly awkward and hard-to-enforce rules about using bsts in buffing for 6-mans. Whether it be something like Haenir suggested (with tweeks) or just make it so bst buffs poof when the bst isn't in a group/raid.
 
Suggestion v 2

Cunning of the Beast as a temporary in-combat buff (think like a group AoD):
  • Reduce duration (50 ticks) -- long enough to maybe last some boss fights, definitely short enough to prevent out of group buffing
  • Reduce mana cost (130 mana)
  • Reduce cooldown (280 secs)
Savagery as a temporary in-combat buff:
  • Reduce duration (40 ticks) -- long enough to maybe last some boss fights, definitely short enough to prevent out of group buffing
  • Reduce mana cost (150 mana)
  • Reduce cooldown (150 secs)
  • Remove peridot requirement
Some options:
  • Keep savagery reagent, add peridot reagent to cunning - because parity (awful idea)
  • Remove the +ATTK and instead have pet mimicry of hits by toons with savagery
  • Make savagery a group buff
 
Totally agreed Pec. We were lamenting the silliness of spelling every single fucking thing out in rules, so whatever solution is decided, one of the goals should be stopping that proliferation.

Just as some things I'm thinking about (nothing decided), I am thinking through making cunning at least a pet proc of relatively short duration that would proc frequently enough to keep it running as long as the BL is in combat. But I'm not wild about constant cunning just by being in combat. Then I started thinking "well what if the pet could have stances" one of which would be a cunning stance? Could we make it raid-wide at that point if there was a downside to using the stance (pet mitigation or some such)? I don't know the answers, but looking for creative solutions. Input is certainly welcome. All I know is we are sick of writing rules. Technical vs. administrative controls for my compliance friends out there. :)
 
I 100% guarantee that if you make cunning a raid wide stance, that you would make all other stances obsolete... guaranteed. The ONLY other time they'd be used is if the BST is soloing/duoing.

I can PM you on the 19th with a bunch of solutions that I had made during the BST revamp. Some wild and obviously a bit OP (would need some tuning down to work) and then others that are more on the "yeah this is an improvement but should we even bother coding it?"

Big question I have is, does 2.5 increase max # of songs? Also, is slaar still 100% set on reagants FORSOMEREASON being "a thing"?
 
To be fair, we are talking about a pet stance, which would be a new thing. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just thinking about it.

And yes, 2.5 supports more songs, but the general rule is we don't want more things there.
 
Taryth said:
To be fair, we are talking about a pet stance, which would be a new thing. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just thinking about it.

And yes, 2.5 supports more songs, but the general rule is we don't want more things there.
Click to expand...
With the exception of "more players". Those we definitely want! :)
 
Has anybody suggested giving beastlords a new pet before the runic 2 this year? You could even make it an aggravating camp like veil of marlow, cleansing flames and some other spells I may have forgotten.

I hope somebody suggested this atleast once this year.
 
The pet issue has been addressed numerous times. The inversely proportional to mob hp dps increase they received with revamp as well as the temp song buff was the method used to have them scale better. Imo the pets are pretty solid right now, maybe a TINY TINY bump in power, but that's really hard to do since Shared Power doesn't work while in /s 8 now. Other than that, they are on point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom