Boxing with a Bard

K

korndawg913

Dalayan Beginner
I just came back after a fairly sizable break, and have decided to come back to playing my Bard, who was my main when I left. I had been soloing with him, but I think I'd rather find a good class to box with him and catch them up. So my question has become what class would best go with a Bard for boxing, and why?
 
Druid if ya want ports. Shaman if you don't. If you dont have access to ports otherwise, druid may be worth it, but getting a bonus bene song (cause you aren't singing haste) and a bonus detri (cause you aren't singing slow for most of the fight) is probably enough to make up for not having DS. Also, you'll get massive stat buffs and canni on the sham... and better dots.
 
I've heard from a few all-pro bards that bard/cleric would be the best choice to be all you can be.
 
It really depends on your play style. If you want your bard to "tank", you go with a healer-type to keep him standing. Hope you have good gear though.
If you want to kite, you might go with a caster, like a mage or wizzie, or a druid. Bards kite well, and the mana/speed song would help another kite well also. (Bard stands int he middle with mana/speed on, and other class kites circles around him. When other is OOM, bard kites while it regens mana.)
Now that both my toons are 65, my bst/bard combo rocks pretty much anywhere I want to go duo at.
 
If you want to kite you should probably just go Necro/sham. I'd say with bard if you're looking to box your best bet is to assume the bard will be doing the tanking (although something creative may be worked out with bard/shaman or bard/paladin... maybe even bard/cleric). Your circling the bard would work, but it seems like it'd be even more tedious than solokiting with a bard (which is pretty damn tedious) without approaching the efficiency of going with strong dot kiting + pets. I guess the real disconnect I see is with the harsh restrictions on AOE's, I can't find a real benefit to boxing when kiting over just doing it with a single character.
 
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the stonger healing really makes up the lack of buffs and detrimental spells on bard/cleric vs bard/shaman?

I personally havent tried a cleric as box but shaman and dru, and have to say that out of these two choices shaman wins by far. And for what would you say that cleric is better than shaman? Just on the strongest mobs I can imagine the cleric to be superiour, but you have alot more downtime with bard cleric too I think.
 
I tried playing bard/cleric last night at 36-7 respectively. My bard just wasn't doing anywhere near enough damage or having enough mitigation to make it viable. I think that was more my bard's gear problem than anything else. I will say that at least for my system b/c works better than b/s simply 'cause of less micromanagement. Maybe a more skilled player could do more with a shaman.

I guess it would ultimately be your call.
 
stickupkid said:
the stonger healing really makes up the lack of buffs and detrimental spells on bard/cleric vs bard/shaman?

I personally havent tried a cleric as box but shaman and dru, and have to say that out of these two choices shaman wins by far. And for what would you say that cleric is better than shaman? Just on the strongest mobs I can imagine the cleric to be superiour, but you have alot more downtime with bard cleric too I think.
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Shaman goes great with melee classes. Majority of your duo time as a bard will be spent kiting, what benefit do shaman buffs add then (aside from the AGI/CHA which you can just get in athica lolbuffbots)? Also, shaman is a very active box (canni canni canni canni canni torpor, rinse & repeat), something you don't want with a bard.

Clerics are one of the strongest classes in the game, their HoTs are ridiculous and perfect for bard kiting.. just slap it on and resume your chanting.

And if you play your bard like a tank high end, you are going to need the healing power of a cleric anyway.. shaman are great but are more fit for an avoidance-style tank (a la monk).
 
Yeah, I haven't kited in a LONG time. I was talking about using a cleric to heal Felyn while he was tanking. Mostly high end mobs: Taraztu, High Beguiler, Arena Keeper, Crusher, etc.

A shaman is fine too maybe for farming lots of mobs for a long period of time for exp/money, but you can do a lot more powerful things with a cleric and a bard because of the healing power of the cleric. A bard can slow, and I can buff with other classes before I leave. This makes the cleric my number one choice.
 
Nodnal said:
A bard can slow, and I can buff with other classes before I leave. This makes the cleric my number one choice.
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If you don't anticipate having access to lots of buffbots, a druid is very nice due to the DS++ dps they have, as well as extra dps on the side. This is assuming you're not tanking super tough mobs, but relatively weak ones that won't tax healing abilities too much, and for whom the DS dps will be more substantial. You'll plough through much more content faster at this rate, and this is what Felyn did to farm pretty much his entire tome set and cash for his charm. I'm pretty sure that if he were put back in that same position, he'd choose the same setup again.

A shaman's slows can significantly make up for the lack of healing power, and the extra dps and buffage (again, if you don't anticipate having an army of buffbots) can be substantial. True, a bard can slow as well; but it does mean the bard won't be doing as much dps,as you can only get two detrimental pulsing songs on at a time. A shaman wouldn't be my first choice, but there's definitely some advantages here.

Aegolism is the only buff the cleric brings to the table, but it's big enough to really stand out. The additional healing power helps a lot on weak tanks like bards particularly if you are fighting tough hitters, and if you are fighting undead or pulling lots of mobs at a time, clerics can do some additional dps.

I'll be the first to admit that I have a cleric alt, but I modeled my duo more after the bard who came before me and less by this kind of careful analysis. More than once I've wished I'd have made a druid instead, but I'm happy with Avaline anyhow.

Long story short: it's not really as black and white as it appears. If you're the #1 - #5 bard on the server with the gear to tank low end raid mobs for cash drops and you have access to any buff you like, there's little reason to take the classes with less healing ability. (Of course, if some of the proposed enchanter changes go in, that might change!) If, instead, you're looking for a good duo partner to get you up to that level; or you are looking for a duo partner which will be good for farming exp and cash from ~ lvl 55- 65 w/3 tomes, the druid and shaman really bring extra utility (including much needed dps) to the table.

Hope that helps!
 
Yeah, it all depends on what you want to do. That is why I said that I liked cleric and bard for high end shit. That subset is fairly small in the population, though.

Back when I farmed Velk's for cash and exp, I used to a druid to buff me and then I camped out. I never really duo'ed anything. If you want great travel and constantly having buffs as well as being able to get into any group (bard and healers are usually wanted). Then I would choose a druid.

If you want to duo high end nameds for big drops, then choose a cleric.

If you want low downtime due to cannibalization and DoTs/cheap heals, then choose a shaman.

My biggest secret is just having access to every class. :p
 
I enjoy boxing bard/druid but Nodnal makes a good point that if you have access to buff bots bard/cleric is very nice for harder boxxed fights like high end named duoing. One thing I like about boxing my druid tho is that you can dps on the lighter less demanding fights yet your heals are strong enough to do alot of straight healing for the tougher fights. I would strongly advise against boxing a shaman tho since bards can slow pretty well you'd be giving up alot of healing power for a little bit more extra slowing power.

Plus druids have the ports and you can keep Spell Ancient: Sihala's Gift on you all the time (which out of cleric/sham/druid is the buff with the shortest durration out of all the comon buffs).
 
Well, I found I wasn't really using the druid (at the lowbie levels anyway) for anythign other than healing my bard. I got tired of switching back and forth so much, so I made a cleric to box with the bard, and LOVE it.

Swap, hit heals macro, and get bigger stronger heals to my bard. Continue kicking butt on the bard. :)
 
Rovans said:
I would strongly advise against boxing a shaman tho since bards can slow pretty well you'd be giving up alot of healing power for a little bit more extra slowing power.
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At the tippy top end the difference is a 50% increase in slow (40% -> 60.5%) however, shaman heals still suck too much to make up for it :(.
 
after failing horribly on a "toughish" white con fight with a shaman and winning ezpz with a cleric (granted the cleric was a lil better equipped than the shaman) I really see the difference.

Cleric blows shaman away .. and although i didnt use druid alot as box I would say it blows the druid away too. The only problem I have with bard/cleric atm, but that can be because I tend to overheal alot still, is that the cleric runs out of mana so fast. Shamans can just keep going for "hours", which is a big plus really when doing EVERYTHING but the hardest mobs that require strong healing. As bard you dont need to med (usually) so waiting for the healer to med sucks - if healer doesnt need to med you just keep going and going.. and that you only can do with a shaman.

Felyn brought up a good point in that you should "aim" at having access to all 3 classes later on to be versatile.. thats what we bards are all about - so its good to have a big TOOLSET =). The level-up-tool would be the shaman in my eyes, they can dish out some nice dps too which is good at lower levels when bard dps is horrible.
 
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