darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Disclaimer: Incoming wall o' text, deal with it.
Beastlords; the red-headed stepchild of SoD it seems. As mentioned in /ooc the other night, the least played class in SoD, even. But why is that? With our pet, we can contribute decent dps, and we have some nice buffs (sv, sb, cotb, sav). But still, I can sit for hours LFG.. when I am stubborn enough to do it. Why? Because it seems dps and a some buffs just isn't enough to crack the line-up. Most rogues, rangers, and monks provide better dps, and some added utility that beastlords lack (lockpick, track, pulling, off/aux tanking, etc.). Beastlords seem ok when it comes to the raid game; the loot code, and enough classes desiring the buffs we have means you need one.. but only one. There is little to no raid-game benefit to having more than one beastlord along. They wear leather armor, so they aren't even as useful to off-tank in a pinch, when compared to others. (Yeah, monk has leather, but he has so many stances to make him so much better, and more able, than a similar geared bst.)
But I don't think the total answer to our woes would be the addition of just a spell or two. Stances really need a looking over, also. The class doesn't need to be in the holy trinity, or even Cinn's god-tier (though it'd be nice), but being less dubious would help. At the moment, most classes in a group can buff anything we do, but better.
The Spells
Spiritual Vigor: no thanks, the pally cast sb sss.. which lasts twice as long. Almost nobody cares about your +40atk for 105hp less, anyways (the rogues/rangers do, but most monks want sss for the extra hp for pulling, bards want the extra hp for aux-ing).
Bliss: The cleric wants this, maybe the druid, the int casters want this also. Every other class on the raid usually clicks this off. Why? Lack of buff slots. It's a nice hp/mana regen boost (8 each), but hardly a required one. Besides, the sb WoN the druid cast, which lasts 4 times as long, has 8ft on it also. And Shammies have so much ability to get mana back already, it's an auto-click for them too.
Cunning of the Beast: Decrease aggro 20%, increase nuke/dot dmg by 20%. Base time of ~15minutes. Flat-out awesome for casters, quickly clicked off by healers and melee. Finally a buff that others don't do better (bard boost songs don't have -aggro), but also of use only to a few. If a group has no int casters, it's generally unwanted. So, more red as it gets clicked off.
Savagery: The one all the rogues want. +25sta, +50 resists, and +100attack. The only problem with this spell is the crazy short duration (6minutes) with a recast that is half that. That means only two people will get this spell, when so many could benefit from it.
How to help the beastlords out here? It has been suggested many times, but I'll say it again, a group Savagery buff. Don't want a raid one, that would probably be OP, but a group buff, with a cool-down just short of the duration, and a duration worth a damn, would be useful and balanced, imo. Perhaps give bst's the last non-relic versions of shammy stat buffs, so if we are grouped and no shammy is around (or they wear off), we have useful stats buffs to throw on people. Or maybe a single buff for stats, with lesser numbers and no side boosts (no ultravision or waterbreathing, etc.).
Also, I am confused why the only hybrid (dps or tank) that gets ancients or relics is the bard. So perhaps give the new spells as ancients/relics. With that in mind, I propose the following:
Ancient: Talisman of the Beast
Mana cost: 300
Cast time: 4 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: Group
Effects:
Increase str, sta, dex, agi by 40
A nice boost for all melee stats, but does less than what doing the individual buffs already available to the bst at that level can do. Exchanging some stats boosts to only take one slot.
Ancient: Aura of Fury
Mana cost: 450
Cast time: 3 seconds
Recharge time: 25 minutes
Duration: 30 minutes
Target: group
Reagents: Peridot x 3 or summoned: peridot x3
Effects:
Increase sta by 20, all resists by 40, atk by 80
A group variant of savagery, slightly less boost, but does the whole group, and lasts 5 times as long. Melee rejoice.
Relic: Spirit of the Savage
Mana cost: 700
Cast time: 12 seconds
Duration: instant
Target: self
Effects:
Summon beastlord pet: BLpet60
A bst pet to bridge the gap between the pet gained at level 63, and the runic2 pet that 99% of the beastlords will never see.
Relic: Essence of the Beast
Mana cost: 350
Cast time: 4 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: Group
Effects:
Increase str, sta, dex, agi by 65
A nice increase to the ancient stat boost, but still below what the shammy relic stats gives, even w/o the extras.
Relic: Mending of the Wild
Mana cost: 325
Cast time: 3 seconds
Recharge time: 10 seconds
Duration: Instant
Target: Pet
Effects:
Increase hp by 1700, decrease disease counters by 12
A new pet heal, not sexy, but needed for sure.
Relic: Spiritual Essence
Mana cost: 400
Cast time: 10 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: group/raid
Effects:
Increase HP 250, Increase atk 40, Increase current mana by 8 per tick, Increase hit points by 8 per tick
A spell merge of Vigor and Bliss, with a light hp increase of Vigor alone, and a longer duration.
Relic: Khati Sha's Empowerment
Mana cost: 450
Cast time: 7 seconds
Recharge time: 30 seconds
Duration: 90 minutes
Target: pet
Effects:
Increase attack speed 85%, Increase strength 100, Increase armor class 200, Increase attack 60, Increase all resists 60, add weapon proc SpSummerEffect
or: Increase attack speed 90%, Increase strength 120, Increase armor class 250, Increase attack 80
A pet haste/stat buff, it would match stats with sha's feroctiy, but include the effects of Keshuval's Protection (resist buff) and Spirit of Summer (proc buff). Alternatively, it could be just an upgrade from the level 59 Sha's Ferocity. A merged buff would save the trouble of all the different timers on the pet buff spells, but an increase in the haste/stats alone would be a nice dps improvement for the pet.
Overall, it would add some utility to the class with the stat buffs, and would boost dps with an improved mid-ground pet and buff/heals for the pet, to maintain its viability. A group savage buff and the merged sv/sb buff would make the class more desirable, in and out of raids, also.
The Stances
/s 4: Spiritual Guardian: Reduce hate the bst generates.
/s 5: Flurry of blows: increase atk speed, decrease accuracy (no 2h weapon)
/s 6: Rending Rage: Interrupt spells
/s 7: Share dmg with warder
Of these, I used /s 4 while leveling up, and as a low AA 65. It allowed the pet to take the aggro from me, and the pet is easier for a solo bst to heal than himself. I use /s 7 on occasions when I need to tank something harder, for virtually the same reason. I take hits better than pet now, but it is still easier to heal him. For raiding, it is rare I will pull aggro from a tank, near impossible if I have cunning on. So really, all I ever use is /s 2.
I have never used /s 5 or /s 6. Flurry of blows is just a waste, the last thing I need is a decrease in accuracy, it seems like I miss allot already. Unless it is a huge haste boost for a minimal decrease, I have never bothered using it to parse it. Rending rage sounds nice, but I just have rarely had the occasion to bother using it. I know of instances where it could help (healer mobs), but usually when xp-ing, those mobs get burnt first.
I have talked to some other higher-tier beastlords, and most are the same way, it is either /s 2 or s/7 in the "oh shit" moments.
Now lets compare that to the other "DPS hybrid classes". SK's and Pallies are tanks, so really don't belong in comparison, even though they are hybrids. That leaves Rangers and Bards to compare to. I could compare for all DPS, but Rogues and Monks have no spells, so they have more stances to compensate, that's fine imo.
Bard Stances
/s 4: Focused Blade: Increase attack speed and damage.
/s 5: Focused Mind: Pulsing songs can not be interrupted.
/s 6: Nimble Dance: Auto-dodge all incoming melee attacks.
/s 7: Will of the Maestro: Immunity to stun, mesmerize, fear and charm, increased resistances.
So, Bard gets plate armor, and still gets a stance that has haste/dmg increase for no drawback, an auto-dodge, and a nice immunity stance. The only blah one (imo) is /s 5, I rarely had reason to use that on my bard. The auto-dodge is an awesome oh shit stance, for as long as it lasts (which isn't long, iirc). Combine that with the fact they get plate armor, and they are far more capable of tanking longer than a bst will.
Ranger Stances:
/s 4: Blade Guard: Increase your parry/riposte at the cost of offhand attack. Requires 2 Weapons
/s 5: Whirling Strikes: Auto Double Attack and Dual Wield. Requires 2 Weapons.
/s 6: Relentless Parry: Auto-Parry All Attacks.
/s 7: Flurry of Shots: Shoot Twice per Round.
/s 8: Avenger's Precision: Increase Archery Accuracy; Lose Avoidance, Parry, Riposte, Dodge.
Rangers get some nice stances to go with their chain armor. Two stances that help mitigate damage, two that boosts attack frequency for no detriment, and an extra stance over bst/bard, that is used to boost archery accuracy for loss of mitigation, mitigation they probably won't need, if firing at max archery range anyways. So really, the only stance costing them anything is s/4.
I am confused how that is balanced at all. Both of the other hybrid dps classes get stances that increase possible dps, with only stamina drain being the downside. A start would be to remove the accuracy decrease off Flurry (/s 5) for bst, making the stance viable to use. Another stance being added would be awesome too. Perhaps one that boosts the chance to crit (melee, spells, both?), or make it an auto-crit with high sta cost.
TL;DR: there isn't one, take your add medicine and read it all.
*dons all his fire resist gear* Ok, have at me.
Beastlords; the red-headed stepchild of SoD it seems. As mentioned in /ooc the other night, the least played class in SoD, even. But why is that? With our pet, we can contribute decent dps, and we have some nice buffs (sv, sb, cotb, sav). But still, I can sit for hours LFG.. when I am stubborn enough to do it. Why? Because it seems dps and a some buffs just isn't enough to crack the line-up. Most rogues, rangers, and monks provide better dps, and some added utility that beastlords lack (lockpick, track, pulling, off/aux tanking, etc.). Beastlords seem ok when it comes to the raid game; the loot code, and enough classes desiring the buffs we have means you need one.. but only one. There is little to no raid-game benefit to having more than one beastlord along. They wear leather armor, so they aren't even as useful to off-tank in a pinch, when compared to others. (Yeah, monk has leather, but he has so many stances to make him so much better, and more able, than a similar geared bst.)
But I don't think the total answer to our woes would be the addition of just a spell or two. Stances really need a looking over, also. The class doesn't need to be in the holy trinity, or even Cinn's god-tier (though it'd be nice), but being less dubious would help. At the moment, most classes in a group can buff anything we do, but better.
The Spells
Spiritual Vigor: no thanks, the pally cast sb sss.. which lasts twice as long. Almost nobody cares about your +40atk for 105hp less, anyways (the rogues/rangers do, but most monks want sss for the extra hp for pulling, bards want the extra hp for aux-ing).
Bliss: The cleric wants this, maybe the druid, the int casters want this also. Every other class on the raid usually clicks this off. Why? Lack of buff slots. It's a nice hp/mana regen boost (8 each), but hardly a required one. Besides, the sb WoN the druid cast, which lasts 4 times as long, has 8ft on it also. And Shammies have so much ability to get mana back already, it's an auto-click for them too.
Cunning of the Beast: Decrease aggro 20%, increase nuke/dot dmg by 20%. Base time of ~15minutes. Flat-out awesome for casters, quickly clicked off by healers and melee. Finally a buff that others don't do better (bard boost songs don't have -aggro), but also of use only to a few. If a group has no int casters, it's generally unwanted. So, more red as it gets clicked off.
Savagery: The one all the rogues want. +25sta, +50 resists, and +100attack. The only problem with this spell is the crazy short duration (6minutes) with a recast that is half that. That means only two people will get this spell, when so many could benefit from it.
How to help the beastlords out here? It has been suggested many times, but I'll say it again, a group Savagery buff. Don't want a raid one, that would probably be OP, but a group buff, with a cool-down just short of the duration, and a duration worth a damn, would be useful and balanced, imo. Perhaps give bst's the last non-relic versions of shammy stat buffs, so if we are grouped and no shammy is around (or they wear off), we have useful stats buffs to throw on people. Or maybe a single buff for stats, with lesser numbers and no side boosts (no ultravision or waterbreathing, etc.).
Also, I am confused why the only hybrid (dps or tank) that gets ancients or relics is the bard. So perhaps give the new spells as ancients/relics. With that in mind, I propose the following:
Ancient: Talisman of the Beast
Mana cost: 300
Cast time: 4 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: Group
Effects:
Increase str, sta, dex, agi by 40
A nice boost for all melee stats, but does less than what doing the individual buffs already available to the bst at that level can do. Exchanging some stats boosts to only take one slot.
Ancient: Aura of Fury
Mana cost: 450
Cast time: 3 seconds
Recharge time: 25 minutes
Duration: 30 minutes
Target: group
Reagents: Peridot x 3 or summoned: peridot x3
Effects:
Increase sta by 20, all resists by 40, atk by 80
A group variant of savagery, slightly less boost, but does the whole group, and lasts 5 times as long. Melee rejoice.
Relic: Spirit of the Savage
Mana cost: 700
Cast time: 12 seconds
Duration: instant
Target: self
Effects:
Summon beastlord pet: BLpet60
A bst pet to bridge the gap between the pet gained at level 63, and the runic2 pet that 99% of the beastlords will never see.
Relic: Essence of the Beast
Mana cost: 350
Cast time: 4 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: Group
Effects:
Increase str, sta, dex, agi by 65
A nice increase to the ancient stat boost, but still below what the shammy relic stats gives, even w/o the extras.
Relic: Mending of the Wild
Mana cost: 325
Cast time: 3 seconds
Recharge time: 10 seconds
Duration: Instant
Target: Pet
Effects:
Increase hp by 1700, decrease disease counters by 12
A new pet heal, not sexy, but needed for sure.
Relic: Spiritual Essence
Mana cost: 400
Cast time: 10 seconds
Duration: 120 minutes
Target: group/raid
Effects:
Increase HP 250, Increase atk 40, Increase current mana by 8 per tick, Increase hit points by 8 per tick
A spell merge of Vigor and Bliss, with a light hp increase of Vigor alone, and a longer duration.
Relic: Khati Sha's Empowerment
Mana cost: 450
Cast time: 7 seconds
Recharge time: 30 seconds
Duration: 90 minutes
Target: pet
Effects:
Increase attack speed 85%, Increase strength 100, Increase armor class 200, Increase attack 60, Increase all resists 60, add weapon proc SpSummerEffect
or: Increase attack speed 90%, Increase strength 120, Increase armor class 250, Increase attack 80
A pet haste/stat buff, it would match stats with sha's feroctiy, but include the effects of Keshuval's Protection (resist buff) and Spirit of Summer (proc buff). Alternatively, it could be just an upgrade from the level 59 Sha's Ferocity. A merged buff would save the trouble of all the different timers on the pet buff spells, but an increase in the haste/stats alone would be a nice dps improvement for the pet.
Overall, it would add some utility to the class with the stat buffs, and would boost dps with an improved mid-ground pet and buff/heals for the pet, to maintain its viability. A group savage buff and the merged sv/sb buff would make the class more desirable, in and out of raids, also.
The Stances
/s 4: Spiritual Guardian: Reduce hate the bst generates.
/s 5: Flurry of blows: increase atk speed, decrease accuracy (no 2h weapon)
/s 6: Rending Rage: Interrupt spells
/s 7: Share dmg with warder
Of these, I used /s 4 while leveling up, and as a low AA 65. It allowed the pet to take the aggro from me, and the pet is easier for a solo bst to heal than himself. I use /s 7 on occasions when I need to tank something harder, for virtually the same reason. I take hits better than pet now, but it is still easier to heal him. For raiding, it is rare I will pull aggro from a tank, near impossible if I have cunning on. So really, all I ever use is /s 2.
I have never used /s 5 or /s 6. Flurry of blows is just a waste, the last thing I need is a decrease in accuracy, it seems like I miss allot already. Unless it is a huge haste boost for a minimal decrease, I have never bothered using it to parse it. Rending rage sounds nice, but I just have rarely had the occasion to bother using it. I know of instances where it could help (healer mobs), but usually when xp-ing, those mobs get burnt first.
I have talked to some other higher-tier beastlords, and most are the same way, it is either /s 2 or s/7 in the "oh shit" moments.
Now lets compare that to the other "DPS hybrid classes". SK's and Pallies are tanks, so really don't belong in comparison, even though they are hybrids. That leaves Rangers and Bards to compare to. I could compare for all DPS, but Rogues and Monks have no spells, so they have more stances to compensate, that's fine imo.
Bard Stances
/s 4: Focused Blade: Increase attack speed and damage.
/s 5: Focused Mind: Pulsing songs can not be interrupted.
/s 6: Nimble Dance: Auto-dodge all incoming melee attacks.
/s 7: Will of the Maestro: Immunity to stun, mesmerize, fear and charm, increased resistances.
So, Bard gets plate armor, and still gets a stance that has haste/dmg increase for no drawback, an auto-dodge, and a nice immunity stance. The only blah one (imo) is /s 5, I rarely had reason to use that on my bard. The auto-dodge is an awesome oh shit stance, for as long as it lasts (which isn't long, iirc). Combine that with the fact they get plate armor, and they are far more capable of tanking longer than a bst will.
Ranger Stances:
/s 4: Blade Guard: Increase your parry/riposte at the cost of offhand attack. Requires 2 Weapons
/s 5: Whirling Strikes: Auto Double Attack and Dual Wield. Requires 2 Weapons.
/s 6: Relentless Parry: Auto-Parry All Attacks.
/s 7: Flurry of Shots: Shoot Twice per Round.
/s 8: Avenger's Precision: Increase Archery Accuracy; Lose Avoidance, Parry, Riposte, Dodge.
Rangers get some nice stances to go with their chain armor. Two stances that help mitigate damage, two that boosts attack frequency for no detriment, and an extra stance over bst/bard, that is used to boost archery accuracy for loss of mitigation, mitigation they probably won't need, if firing at max archery range anyways. So really, the only stance costing them anything is s/4.
I am confused how that is balanced at all. Both of the other hybrid dps classes get stances that increase possible dps, with only stamina drain being the downside. A start would be to remove the accuracy decrease off Flurry (/s 5) for bst, making the stance viable to use. Another stance being added would be awesome too. Perhaps one that boosts the chance to crit (melee, spells, both?), or make it an auto-crit with high sta cost.
TL;DR: there isn't one, take your add medicine and read it all.
*dons all his fire resist gear* Ok, have at me.
((