Beastlord 2H double/triple attacks

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
The Melee Mastery AA states that, "at the third rank, your double attacks with the primary hand will no longer fail."

Is this working / does it apply to 2h weapons?

It doesn't take but a few combat rounds to notice that 2h weapons frequently only fire once, though doubles and triples regularly occur as well.

I'd love to understand how this works!
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
Yes my misses are on, single swing rounds happen a lot with 2h weapons.

Any dev / GM able to chime in, is this working as intended? Doesn't seem to be in line with the AA text.
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
I can also confirm that mainhand attacks with beastlord do not always double when using 1 handed weapons as well -- this is with the proper AA's maxed.

Please help!
 

darksabbath

Dalayan Master
Nobody cares about beastlords (except the few brave souls playing them). You either get used to it, or you roll an alt...
 

Grinkles

Developer
Staff member
I made myself into a BST, maxed these AAs, and took some swings at a mob using a broom and then my mainhand fist. A decent chunk of my rounds were still single attacks, so something is definitely fishy. I'd guess that one of the following is at play:
  • It used to work in 2.0 and doesn't work in 2.5.
  • The AA does something, but the description is misleading.
Someone like Rymy or Haenir would need to look into it further if you want an explanation as to whether or not it's working as intended.
 

Ovisha

Dalayan Adventurer
Unless I'm mistaken the way the AA works is it actually gives you effectively +double attack skill, for classes that get double attack it raises it high enough to be 100% for MH swings. For classes that don't get double attack like beastlords and bards it just gives them some chance to double.
 

Faylahs

Dalayan Elder
Unless I'm mistaken the way the AA works is it actually gives you effectively +double attack skill, for classes that get double attack it raises it high enough to be 100% for MH swings. For classes that don't get double attack like beastlords and bards it just gives them some chance to double.
i seem to recall the AA's description saying something to that effect in the old client such as "this AA gives the player the ability to always perform a double attack with their primary weapon. Bards and Beastlords instead get the ability to occasionally double strike " it isnt a perfect memory but it was something close to that.
 

Binsin

Dalayan Elder
Just curious if double attack works 100% of the time for those who get the cap skill + that AA, whats the point of having +double attack on gear?
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
+1 double attack skill is a separate 1% roll to attack again in a round, above the normal mechanics. It can cause triple attacks, not sure if it can cause quads.

It functions independent of double attack skill above the 250 number as I recall.
 

Rymy

Developer
Staff member
I'm much more willing to investigate things where people have put in the work to parse this stuff.
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
Thank you for chiming in Rymy, what information would you like to see? 2h single, dual, triple rates?

Would you like 1h rates as well?
 

Rymy

Developer
Staff member
I inherently know nothing about the AA, so any objective evidence with the AA (and without the AA to compare if you can find a toon) would be appreciated and increase the chance something gets fixed.
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
I know this is anecdotal but when I was making my bst, far prior to 2.5, I remember Kjiel telling me how 2h was inherently better on BST since we doubled every swing, but dual wield you only doubled the main hand and the offhand had a much smaller chance.

Makes me think something has changed, I'll parse when I have time.
 

Swiftur

Dalayan Elder
From what I remember, 2hb is specifically bad for Beastlords because of how our AAs worked, because we do not receive the same benefit from the AA as every other class that gets it, this in part because Beastlords get Beastial Frenzy AA. I noticed in your quote of how the AA works that the description in game has clearly changed. It used to have a whole "For Beastlords, this does yadda yadda yadda" descriptor that said something like double attack is not guaranteed, but on occasion additional attacks can occur with the primary hand, those additional attacks were in fact capable of triggering procs too.

Beastial Frenzy AA is double attack 100% for the secondary hand only when maxed out. Actually its like 125%. At max rank, if you equip a really slow primary like brainsucker or ofgats 1hb, you will sometimes see 3-4 hits per round from the secondary, right about the 25% mark. It's very easy to catch if you use a dagger or some other skill than whats in primary. The last and most important thing... If you barefist your primary, Melee Mastery does not work, you must have a weapon equipped. I parsed that thoroughly. Again this is all from memory, so forgive me if I am a little off, but I am absolutely certain that Melee Mastery works differently for Beastlords and that it used to have it's own descriptor for them.
 

Hyoren

Dalayan Adventurer
Back in the day, it did have a separate usage disclaimer for Beastlords and Bards. But depending on how far the 2.5 client is, it might not work anymore. I think it later gets removed and replaced by Ferocity (War, Rogue, Rng, Monk) and Knight's Advantage (Pal, Shd). And Beastlords and Bards retain Beastial Frenzy and Harmonious Attack.
 

susurrus

Dalayan Elder
So I've done a bit of parsing on Grimstump (about 6 hours worth of 2h swings.)

If the logs would be helpful let me know, here is what I've found with one caveat:

Caveat: I don't know how to eliminate ripostes from my data without manually doing it, therefore the number of double attacks and triple attacks is skewed slightly higher because the ripostes make it appear that I've attacked more times in a round than I actually have.

So assuming the double and triple numbers are SLIGHTLY elevated (I'd guess 1-2%)

Single attack rounds: 45.2%
Double attack rounds: 42.1%
Triple attack rounds: 12.7%

This is with this character and gearset: https://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=yuttas

So the majority of attack rounds are single swings with a 2h weapon, that is a far cry from the AA description.

What else can I provide @Rymy ?
 

Ovisha

Dalayan Adventurer
https://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/threads/unlabeled-aa-and-tome-values.16524/

Granted thats an oldish post and idk maybe something changed but
Melee Mastery (Increases chance to double attack) - 25/50/100 effective double attack skill bonus (No fail for primary at rank 3) 20/40/80 effective triple attack skill bonus
Beastial Frenzy (Further chance to double attack) - 25/50/75/100/125 effective double attack skill bonus (pretty much only of use for offhand)

"(No fail for primary at rank 3)"
Is for the classes that get double attack as an actual skill. Should compare double attack vs some level 45 character with it maxed for an idea of how often it should happen
 
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