Bane Damage Rebalance

Diodimus

Diodimus

Dalayan Elder
When I saw the post concerning this, I had a couple questions.

Firstly, how does this affect the bane damage with arrows? Will me having a +3 humanoid bane arrow negate the effect of my ring with +1 humanoid bane?

Secondly, will this prevent stacking of different augs that can be acquired via bounties? Thus making it so that I will only benefit from the strongest aug that has been inserted into a customized bow instead of having them stack on each other?
 
Unintended bugs notwithstanding, this will not affect arrows whatsoever. Bane damage on arrows works differently and should not conflict with whatever it is the devs are doing with worn bane damage.
 
Primaries, secondaries, ranged weapons and arrows only have their bane applied when that weapon is used, so 3 bane on an arrow only works with a bow. 5 bane on a sword will only work when that sword is swung.

Worn bane, anything not in those slots mentioned, will be applied in a highest per slot wins sort of fashion. If you have an item with 2 bane augs in a single slot which total up to 2, you would receive 2 worn bane. The manner in which it increases your damage remains exactly the same, the only change here is that you can't stack it into infinity.
 
Diodimus said:
Firstly, how does this affect the bane damage with arrows? Will me having a +3 humanoid bane arrow negate the effect of my ring with +1 humanoid bane?
Click to expand...

Does humanoid bane damage on gear affect bow shots? I had heard somewhere that bane damage only affected melee attacks and not ranged
 
Curious how hard this is going to nerf melee dps, and specifically rogues, Until i could stack +10 humanoid i was behind rangers necros mages ect, Seriously rogues have 0 utility yet we can barely contend with the only other class like us, a wizard, but at least a wizard gets some utility even if its tiny, Rangers get the best of all worlds, They do melee damage, at range like casters, with an amazing tanking stance, the ability to self heal, and now unless there are at least +8 damage bane items, going to out parse rogues without an issue well bringing none of the downsides of a rogue, Rogues are getting the short end of the stick here, Something moves even trying as hard as we can, We will miss that backstab, and we won't even get a message we missed it, it just doesn't register.

Someone will bring up the survivability thing, and to you i say rethink it, I may have more HP then a caster, but its barely by 1k, and if i pull aggro melee wise i die just as fast as a caster, so that leaves spell damage, and 20% spell ward > 1k hp, so the reasoning here is kinda flawed.

I'll save alot more about this subject until i see the changes implemented.
 
It really just depends on what bane damage items end up having. I'd say if FWF toons end up with 9ish dps will remain about the same, with some added stats. 7 or lower would be a pretty big dps nerf though as I know our meeles that parse well stack up to 10+ right now.

Really, lots of bane damage isn't the best way to balance meele though. I'd rather see bane damage take some nerf, and see duel wield / double attack thrown around a lot more liberally in its place. Its kind of odd that when you have that odd/random boss bodytype that people have no bane damage for, suddenly they get a huge dps nerf.

Keep Bane at a lower level so its a cool boost on certain things, but not crazy, and compensate with higher haste, more double attack, duel wield, or weapon ratios. I always thought it was a bit odd how much haste % progression slowed down once you got to t9-10. Before then you get 2-3% haste a tier. Then from t10 to 13 you only gain 2-3% total?

Its hard to balance all this though, because bane damage is just such a huge bonus, more influential than any other stats (other than just better ratio/procs).
 
Silosobi said:
lots of bane damage isn't the best way to balance meele
Click to expand...

this is sort of what the final take away from this change should be. having bane damage is sort of fun, but it puts melee at a general disadvantage since, at least at the higher tiers, it is basically required to have for melee to catch up to casters in terms of overall damage. items like the bounty belt will be used over items dropping on tier because of the dps boost, regardless of what else is lost. its also difficult because its the only type of mod a character can equip that doesn't directly enhance their capabilities, and is tied directly to the mob type that is being engaged. you could compare that to resists maybe, but as much as that whole side of casters has been toned down recently (and this is a good thing) it really isnt a relevant comparison.

i agree with solo too about having more general mods, like duel wield/double attack/offense, becoming more prevalent because those are dps mods for melee that can be applied to any fight. with newer content like thaz/iki pt2, i would assume not every mob will end up being humanoid. on those fights, since the most common bane damage type is humanoid, melee will already be starting at a disadvantage.

if we really want to stick with bane damage as a thing in the long term, id suggest putting it in its own separate slot or aug or something, that the character can upgrade specifically and switch out depending on the fight itself. maybe each mob has a chance to drop a 'dragonbone whetstone' or 'elemental enhancer' or whatever depending on the mob type to loot and combine and blah blah. and then you make something with +1/2/etc bane damage of that type, or it could be a clicky buff with charges who knows. Really though that would be a lot of extra coding and work to see everyone just end up with whatever the max bane damage is and then new fights need to be balanced around that.

edit: also this isnt really on topic but responding to draeos's tidbit about spell ward being really good and making melee/casters equal in terms of survivability, that is pretty much on point. casters don't take melee damage (or shouldnt at least) and spell ward effectively gives them 20% more hp. that is crazy. casters obviously still can't duo as well as your run of the mill melee, but thats not really the focus of this thread anyway.
 
Last edited:
would be neat if there were dropped augs that gave double attack/dw/offense/whatever
 
or refuge augs! I've wanted evo/div refuge augs forever so I dont have to wear lower tier items forever bc they happen to have a bunch of evocation (hey saitha mask). Its a costly way to cap your skills, but its nice to just have the option (at the loss of elemental damage or mana or w/e) and greatly reduces gear pigeonholing.
 
I've noticed things like the poison molten lead help a ton for dps, AC debuffs are huge for a rogue, Maybe find a way to scale bypassing AC? It would keep us competitive without giving a huge boon to abunch of other classes. War's are the only strickly melee dps tank, and they get to bypass being auxed and that sounds very innate to the class, bypassing AC sounds like a very innate things for the master of melee dps to be able to do.
 
A change needed to happen, i understand that completely, it was a band aid fix to keep melee dps competitive. What i am worried about is there still going to be a gushing wound under that band aid, or just scar tissue? I don't understand not opening up a conversation about this with the player base, The ones who have lived and used and have the more experience with this then anyone else. It hasn't even been implemented yet, This will be game changing why not open up a line of communication about it before the change goes into effect? Like in balancing or something, I do not understand how you could after every other change of this nature and there results, not want to get input before hand. Hell you can ignore all the input, but maybe it will open your eyes to something you didn't consider before? Expose other issues that are pseudo related, Like how 20% spell ward is making caster's just as survivable as any melee dps.

My main concerns are:

How is it going to scale through the tiers? Is it going to be treated like a focus effect like damage increment? With T12+ haivng +7-8? Or is it going to be treated as its own progression skipping a tier or 2 before seeing a new item with more bane on it than the last?

What about current items that are itemized to have bane on them making them best in slot? Will this change itemization completely? Will say Gloom ear get 8 humanoid making T8 shoulders now best in slot for a rogue?

This is a sweeping game changing fix, and not a peep, I understand hey its your sandbox but what i don't understand is how you seemingly don't want to get player input pre fixing something this game changing. Wouldn't you rather have a civil conversation about it now, rather then once its implemented and you have heated and pissed off player base jumping down your throat?
 
Draeos said:
heated and pissed off player base jumping down your throat?
Click to expand...

This is going to happen in each and every scenario regardless of the level of playerbase input, level of playerbase involvement, the end result of power of melee, the end result of melee scaling through the tiers, the comparative end result of power of casters, the end result of difficulty of content at Tiers 5-9, the end result of difficulty of content at Tiers 10-14, and the speed of retuning things that couldn't be precisely measured beforehand.

The key piece of information you're missing is the level of staff collaboration on this. It's hard to overstate how energizing it can be for a team to have one of its leaders increasing their level of involvement. Hence, all of the excitement surrounding Thazeran's Tower and Wold's activity has the Dev Team (and staff in general) quite energized and working together. Your experience with projects akin to this one being done unilaterally by a single dev doing the best they can alone isn't representative of this project.
 
I am curious now about what is going to happen with the bane arrows now. For example, will humanoid bane arrows affect all body types that could be considered humanoid, or will there now be more specific banes such as Young Race or Ancient?
 
Work-in-progress, but all the post 180 stuff is going to have to change over to the new system, and I'm trying to make sure it's ready to go in next patch.

This is at least a lot easier to do than writing the whole thing from scratch was.
 
A few new questions to follow that up:

1) Will some materials be changing?
2) If so, when will we know the new mats?
3) What happens to quivers that have already been made using current materials that no longer align with the previous bane type?
4) What happens to quivers that have already been made using outdated materials?
 
Last edited:
(1) Of course, but the basic idea will hopefully still be intact.
(2) That information will be available on release in the same manner as last time.
(3 and 4) Working on that... all of those quivers made will need to transfer to the new system. The alternative would be that the arrows produced by those quivers would have bane damage that simply doesn't work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom